Dude Check This Out- Kevin "Bernie" Land (#10)

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Show Notes:

Kevin and Noah's Podcast:

Dude Check This Out

Dude Check This Out Twitter:

Dresden Files by Jim Butcher:

17x (!) Book Series including the recently released Peace Talks

K-Pop Recommendations from Kevin:


Bloons Tower Defense Game:

Dungeons and Dragons Starter Books:

D&D Essentials  

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Episode Transcript

Daniel: [00:00:00] Hi guys, welcome to dead by tomorrow interviews. My name is Daniel winter and my cohost is Andrew Monroe. As we explore different topics

Bernie: [00:00:08] that are worth thinking about today,

Daniel: [00:00:10] we want to bring in guests to share their own unique perspective. We hope you enjoy hearing from our guests as much as we enjoy talking to them.

Andrew: [00:00:20] welcome back to this episode or this week's episode, I guess if you will want count and weeks, I don't know how to count as we discussed last time and, Daniel kindly and generously pointed out, but we have Kevin who also, as far as I know, it goes by Bernie. And that's all I've heard about is Bernie and I get confused with this Kevin LAN thing, but he's on with us today.

He is with do check this out a wonderful podcast that you need to look at. If you're into just about anything, content consumer related he's covers, DMD books, movies, lots of comics and everything in between is really good. Well done, podcasts that you guys need to check out. If you haven't. So for those who don't know you, including myself, tell us a little about yourself and who you are, where you've been, what you do.

Bernie: [00:01:09] Sure. So I actually did some prep work for this. I have to listen to deep listening to some of your other podcast’s episodes. So my name is Kevin land. I go by Bernie. It's a Frisbee nickname that we'll get into later. I'm sure, but some things about me. So I'm a Christian. I have been dubbed a Hufflepuff from the Pottermore thing.

I'm an idiot.

Andrew: [00:01:35] Cut this off.

Bernie: [00:01:37] I am an Enneagram seven and an E N F J. So I don't really know what all those mean. I like took the tests, wrote them down. I don't really know anything about them, but. That's for any of those personality quiz people out there that tells you all you need to know. Oh, I'm also a Gemini,

Daniel: [00:01:53] So w what's your Enneagram wing? Cause nobody's going to really know you. If you don't share what your wing is. Oh, I

Bernie: [00:01:59] don't know what that means.

Andrew: [00:02:00] Oh

Daniel: [00:02:02] guys. It's okay. We'll do an entire episode about Enneagram

Bernie: [00:02:06] sometime next episode. Do you guys have a Twitter I'll tweet in?

Daniel: [00:02:11] Yeah, we do. I think we have four

Bernie: [00:02:13] followers.

Heck yeah. That's about it's about where do you take this out or drunk and it's pretty. Oh, you guys actually do.

I live in Houston, Texas. I'm I play Frisbee ultimate Frisbee. I've been playing for a long time. That's where I met Daniel. I'm currently an engineer, working with a small contracting company that does municipal work. So currently I'm working on designing a bunch of pump stations, for the city of Houston, after hurricane Harvey and his, whatever that other one was called, doing all that kind of stuff.

And, I'm pretty sure, I think we already talked about it, but I think I met Andrew at least like twice or so, like face to face, but never like actually sat down [00:03:00] and hung out or, yeah, I

Andrew: [00:03:01] think once in Houston, once in Dallas, maybe.

Daniel: [00:03:04] there was definitely the Galveston tournament, where Andrew blew out his knee.


Bernie: [00:03:08] so that's all the bits about me, Also I'm a self-proclaimed nerd. I like a lot of nerdy stuff and I'm sure that's going to come out throughout the podcast.

Daniel: [00:03:16] So if you're self-proclaimed, does that mean that nobody's ever called you a nerd?

Bernie: [00:03:20] No, I guess other people also call me that

Andrew: [00:03:23] if you get big and chunky

or so I hear

Bernie: [00:03:30] okay,

Andrew: [00:03:31] Hey man, that was a good intro. Okay. I like it. You have anything that you've pulled from your engineering nerdy life experiences and Frisbee that you, that defined

Bernie: [00:03:40] that defines me

Andrew: [00:03:42] like a word I used to play this game with a lot of people, not a game, but that's what's the couple of words that, define you.

Who knows. Maybe we'll cut this out.

Daniel: [00:03:51] That's a, the two words, right? That's from, Oh, what is that book? Why am I blinking at the red rising? But it's after that iron gold, is that worse?

Andrew: [00:03:59] I honestly don't remember that. That's probably around the timeframe where it was like the two words that described you or something.

Daniel: [00:04:04] Yeah. Cause he's talking about a, he's talking about this person, this woman who is just like deceptive beyond all belief but is also cruel beyond all belief. And so her words that describe her, it's like, Velvet buzzsaw.

Bernie: [00:04:19] Oh yeah. Is it

interest now? It

Andrew: [00:04:28] was, I think

Daniel: [00:04:30] he

Andrew: [00:04:31] described her in two words and we were reading and I was like, that's great. We need to fund, we need all of our, like two-word descriptions and then texted like a hundred people asking what they thought.

Daniel: [00:04:40] there's supposed to be two contradictory words is the idea.

Bernie: [00:04:44] Yeah.

So if you could give, so if you could give me an example. So like velvet, buzzsaw is what you're looking for. Something like that or something like a nerd engineer type.

Daniel: [00:04:57] So it's like velvet,

Andrew: [00:04:58] buzzsaw, saucy take like the nerd engineer and you turn it into something else.

Bernie: [00:05:05] Two

Daniel: [00:05:05] contradictory

Andrew: [00:05:06] parts of your personality that can help bridge all of the gaps in your personality.

It's a big, it's a tall order.

Bernie: [00:05:12] Okay. I got mine. The unthinking microphone, unthinking. Isn't quite the perfect word, but I'm a pretty loud and like energetic person. I like to think that. I find that I've been telling him easy to talk to all that kind of social aspect, but I also think that a lot of times I don't, I'm not, I cannot be very considerate or I won't think before I speak.

and so there's been times where I'm not very good at communicating like consistently and things of that nature. And I'm live more in the moment than I do purposefully. I'm thinking isn't quite it. Maybe I'm distracted. Microphone might be better district. It's good. Oh, attracted microphone.

[00:06:00] Daniel: [00:06:00] I like it.

Andrew: [00:06:09] I had something that I know we had talked a little bit with you about what we wanted to ask questions and that kind of thing. But something happened yesterday that I was hoping you would be excited about because unfortunately, Daniel hasn't gotten on the ship yet. And I know that on yours, as she talked about Stormfront and the Dresden files and that you are a fan of

Bernie: [00:06:28] butcher.

Oh, I have the book next to me.

Andrew: [00:06:32] You're good. You got peace talks.

Bernie: [00:06:35] it came out, for my, so my birthday is in June and my little brother. Pre-ordered the book for me. and so it came in yesterday and he texted me probably like midafternoon, evening yesterday. And so today after work, I went and hung out with my parents for an hour and picked up the book and I was reading it before we got started here.

Andrew: [00:06:58] I did the same thing I was. So I've got the audio books. I preordered the audio book. I started listening to it, probably around lunch, listen to 10 minutes while I was driving around and got another 30 minutes after five o'clock where I was driving around finding dinner and everything. And I just, this is really interrupting my ability to enjoy a book right now.


Bernie: [00:07:19] let's just really get through this quick and get back to it.

Andrew: [00:07:25] I'm so glad you're fan. How did you find

Bernie: [00:07:28] butcher by the way? My dad. Reads a lot, specifically kind of fantasy, books and things of that nature. So I think he found Jim butcher through the dreads and files, or maybe the he's also read like the Furies of, I think, yeah.

Oh, yeah, there we go. The Kodak Solera. So I've read all those. Those are great. And so he turned my sister onto them. My, I have an older sister. She is about two and a half years older than me. And so she started reading them in high school. And then when I finally got to about like 11th grade, my dad finally convinced my mom that I was old enough to read them.

It starts off a little rough. The first one has a little bit, nothing too graphic, but by book. Two or three there's like a sex scene or two. I feel like Jim butcher does a good job of describing the emotional impact of that while making it not as graphic, but it's still definitely sexually explicit.


Andrew: [00:08:34] he does. He does a good balance there. And Daniel, Paul LA dude, check this out. I'm pulling my card there. since Bernie is on with us and saying that at some point in the next few months, you might want to check out some, President fallacy, you

Daniel: [00:08:46] can catch up to be fair. I have read a Jim butcher book before you, you reminded me that they are not windlass, which yeah.

That book was good, but what was better from that book was a [00:09:00] conversation into you and I had afterwards and very, maybe this will open your eyes a little bit to. There's some things reading books, but for whatever reason within that book and Andrew, I think we both listened to it on audio book, but afterwards we were talking about it or yeah, pretty good.

It's exciting. Like anything with, wind shifts, all that sort of stuff. But we both felt like Jim butcher use blinking for every scenario, every like every character, I would say their dialogue and at the end of it, they would blink and it just

Andrew: [00:09:28] has someone blink. It was the weirdest thing.


Bernie: [00:09:35] It's constant. What great way to ruin that for me, I appreciate that. I'm going to be able to read in this next book.

Andrew: [00:09:43] Honestly, that's what I told Daniel. I was like, Hey, we need to talk about something when you finish this, but I'm not going to tell you just in case you don't notice it and we're never going to talk about it.

And then he came back and he's was it the blinking?

Bernie: [00:09:53] And I was like, yes,

Andrew: [00:09:55] he's that was weird. But, yeah, I didn't want to run a frame. No, since we haven't hung out. It's cool. If I

Bernie: [00:10:02] run. Yeah, I get it. If you're going to start reading the addressed in files, which I highly recommend. If you can, if you enjoy the first one at all, they just get exponentially better after that exponentially

Andrew: [00:10:16] better.

Like it's a curve.

Bernie: [00:10:19] I will say the first book is like fairly mediocre, but if you have a good time with it, They get much better from there.

Daniel: [00:10:26] All right. that was my experience with the dark tower. I hated the first book. And then as it went, it got so much better and then it got bad again.

And then it got better. Again,

Andrew: [00:10:37] dark is a little odd. The Dresden files for me. I think Bernie listened to it a lot earlier than I did her. Read it. Sorry. Cause I've listened to most of them now. I didn't pick it up until post-college I believe like probably five years ago. Six or seven years ago. I forget how old I am, but it really was the first five books for me.

I, it took me five books actually enjoy the series, which is a weirdly large time commitment for a book series.

Bernie: [00:11:01] Yeah. I didn't want to scare Daniel off, but I do think that the book really hits its stride at like books six or seven.

Daniel: [00:11:07] Hi guys. It's fine. I started one piece like two months ago, To be fair. It's like apparently half of hip is doing the same thing. So I guess it's just,

Bernie: [00:11:18] yeah, it does make me happy that all of these Frisbee people that I'm friends with are getting into anime specifically. One piece, But I just can't imagine trying to dive into it now, since I've been like watching it since

Andrew: [00:11:32] that's funny, because we actually talked about anime.

So as long as everybody's showering, this could be a really good thing for the community as a whole. You could look them guys, they run around a lot, they don't get beat up too much. So that could be a good, which you might've forgotten to talk, but. Part of why we brought you in on this was you're a good resource for content and how that helps you build relationships with people, right?

Daniel: [00:11:57] Yeah. Back to the topic at hand, so to speak.

Bernie: [00:11:59] Yeah. I was like, [00:12:00] wait,

Andrew: [00:12:01] so my bad, I'm going to throw it over to Daniel to start us off with some actual questions for you, because he is the one that knows you best.

Daniel: [00:12:08] I feel we'll just start with Bernie. Kevin let's maybe start with what that came from.

Like why do people call you Bernie instead of your name? Kevin, those are totally different things. So how did that happen?

Bernie: [00:12:22] I went to high school in Houston with a bunch of guys that play ultimate Frisbee, and a lot of them went to Texas a and M a year or two ahead of me. So I go to Texas a and M my freshman year, where there's already a bunch of guys on the team that know me.

I start going off to practice. They're all calling me TEV or Tebow, things like that. and then try out officially start my shelf to practice, ready to go. And everyone who knows my name. Is calling me Bernie and I have no idea why. And I tell myself, Hey, it's like a freshmen thing. Just don't worry about it.

So as I'm introducing myself to everyone else, who's there. I'm like, Hey, my name is Kevin. If you were calling me Bernie, I don't really know why. Yeah. And eventually the name just sticks. So people learn. My name is Bernie. The first tournament comes and goes and eventually I approach one of the upperclassmen are rough.

Let it guy I'm on the team. He's on the team. And I ask him, Hey Dan, you're a reasonable man. And Daniel tells me, yeah. People tell me that. And I go, okay. It's like November, we started in August. Why are people calling me Bernie? And he tells me, I'll just speak for you, Daniel. Thank you. He tells me, it's 2011 and the Bernie, the dance is very popular right now.

And I said, of course, I know it. It's very positive in 2011. and he goes, we wanted someone to do that dance when they scored. And our plan was when you scored your first point at the tournament, we'd all jump around you and Bernie, and it'd be a big moment. I said, that sounds awesome. Why didn't you do that?

and he goes, Oh, I guess we forgot. All right, we'll see you. And then walks off.

Daniel: [00:14:12] Yeah. Yeah. So the background to that after Frisbee, it's really important to take care of your body, to feed yourself a really nutritious mill to build your muscles back up. And most of the team would go to taco bell every night after practice. Yeah. Talk about our McDonald's but the no cane. no, we didn't have enough money for that.

We went to taco bell one night and we had the entire roster of the guys that we felt would probably make a team. And myself, Matt, Pat, Bobby, like the crew, we decided that we were going to give every single person on that list, a nickname, and some of them were terrible. Most of them were terrible.

And yet. Kevin exactly. Like you said, we're like, [00:15:00] we're going to call him Bernie and it'd be great if he scored a point and we went and did the Bernie and that didn't happen. But somehow your nickname stuck and one other nickname, there is this small, smaller kid named Juan who we met at like a pickup game.

He was like, So good out at pickup. And then we had really high hopes for him. And so we gave him the nickname, mad dog, cause we just watched the raid and we were so excited about mad dog. And then he turned out to not really be that great in practice, but he had, yeah,

Bernie: [00:15:32] but he had the best Nick name

Daniel: [00:15:34] of anybody on the list.

So we still put them on 18 cause we couldn't waste the nickname.

Bernie: [00:15:43] it was a fact. Oh, no format. I know

Daniel: [00:15:48] that Doug is great. Shout out to Matt, Doug.

Bernie: [00:15:50] Yeah. So now it is stuck so much that when I play Frisbee with not people who didn't go to a and M or just in general, I always introduce myself as Bernie, because it's just way easier than doing the whole nickname confusion thing.

Cause everyone who already knows me from college. And those clubs seasons calls me Bernie. So there are multiple people in this world who do not know my real name and believe in their heart of hearts. That my real name is Bernie.

Andrew: [00:16:20] That was me. Something came up because I'd heard about Bernie, the head guest since college and something.

I think the first time Daniel mentioned do check this out. He was like, Oh, Kevin land. I was like, who's Kevin land, Bernie? And I was like, Oh, Wait, what? I haven't played Frisbee

Bernie: [00:16:43] nothing.

Andrew: [00:16:44] I just I'm one of those people. So who knows how many Andrews are out there thinking your name is actually Bernie for some reason.

Bernie: [00:16:51] Yeah. You have specifically Patrick, Marco and Daniel and the rest of them. Yeah.

Andrew: [00:16:56] Which we don't ruin his life. You gave him just a random nickname and now you're four years graduated or five years, whatever it is. And you're stuck with this nickname because these guys had too much taco bell.

all right, I've got a question for you then. And this is more of a, another shout out for the dude. Check this out, give us a little rundown for it. And you know what, you're excited on, where that podcast is going and that kind of thing.

Bernie: [00:17:32] Sure you guys have done a better job. like hyping us up and summarizing what our podcast is more so than we do in our own podcast.

But do you check this out is a podcast where, and I know I've known as long as I can remember. We grew up together in the same church when we were like, Preschool or so, and so we've had very similar interests and she'd been sharing things with each other for our entire lives, [00:18:00] but there's just so much media in the world, that there's plenty of things that each of us have experienced and enjoyed, but haven't shared with the other person yet.

so do you check this out is the podcast where we do that? We, you share things that have fallen through the cracks of our friendship. and then we, chat about them. Talk about them. It's anything from, video games, music, movies, comic books, physical like novels. one time we watched e-sports I got him to sit down and watch that with me and Patrick, a bunch of just stuff.

at the end of the day, it's mostly so no. And I can sit, hang out and talking to microphones cause that's super fun. No, this podcast here, I'm having a great time. so that's what it is. It's I think that the, like one of the neatest things about it is that there's. this entire catalog, now that you can go back to any time and just pick and choose what you like.

Do you check this out is best experience when you already have an interest and what the topic is? And if you do, I think it's a really interesting podcast to hear people just chat about it and go into detail about this thing that you already enjoy. And if not, it's a cool place to find new things.

If you like video games or music movies, a lot, the older stuff, or things a little off the beaten path. but if that's your thing and you're into specifically nerd stuff, I think it's a really good place to find things. That's very cool, man.

Andrew: [00:19:24] I like it. Has it affected your relationships outside of you and Noah?

Have you, has it opened

Bernie: [00:19:29] any doors? I guess it's been interesting. Some of the people that listen the most are our parents recently. My mother has started taking a walk in more so now that we're in the quarantine, she's trying to walk two or three miles, like two or three times a day. she's been listening to do check this out.

And so that has been an interesting way to. Get to know my own mom a little bit better now that we're, I'm a full-grown adult man having a relationship with my mom. That's not just like mother, son, but equals, and so as I've been continuing to do that, having her listen to the strange interests that I have, or that know it gives me, has been a very interesting topic of conversation.

To have with her about all the weird things that I'm interested in or that Noah has shared with me. it's also been neat icebreaker or a neat thing with people at church or at work or things like that, where really lead with, Hey, I have this podcast, cause that feels a little disingenuous.

Eventually it normally comes up. and then having people come up to me and be like, Oh yeah, I listened to your podcast. I really liked this episode. I didn't know you liked that thing. and it's a little weird to have a lot of time, like we're up to over 50 episodes, like 50 to 60 hours of myself, just on the internet with my heart [00:21:00] open for whoever.

And so it's interesting to have that. So when they come back and talk to me after listening to an episode or two. They now have a direct line to some of my most intimate thoughts. And it's very easy for me to now talk to them cause I'm like, I can't hide anything. Cause I already put it all there.

So any weirdness or like things I might be ashamed of, like it's all in the podcast, I might as well just be open now. It's been very interesting. Talk with people about it and a little nerve wracking in the sense that it's makes yourself a little vulnerable too. Random people or people you don't know very well, but it's been a positive experience

Daniel: [00:21:39] overall.

Yeah, and I love that concept of vulnerability. And I think you actually had a podcast episode with a guest I'm blinking on the name of the guest right now is the guy that you play star Wars role playing game with Kersey. Yes. Great name or just talking some about my brother and me podcasts on podcasts.

And, he mentioned that he feels like he knows those guys. Intimately, just like the thing, but they would have no idea who he is, but at the same time, it's like they, if he were to come across them and meet them, they could probably pretty quickly form a relationship and have some interest. And, probably wouldn't just awkwardly sit and stare at their phones and like a waiting room like we do with half of the other people in our lives.

And having that vulnerability saying that, Hey, these are my interests. These are things that we can talk about. I think it's awesome. I think it's beneficial.

Bernie: [00:22:32] Yeah. It's that concept of knowing a public figure very intimately when they have no idea who you are is fascinating to me.

And it's pretty cool to be on the other side of that as well. So for example, if Andrew had listened to two or three of the episodes, which. It's fine if he does or doesn't, but he would have a lot more knowledge of me. And I wouldn't, I didn't know too much about him. I guess I've listened to most of these episodes.

So I have a pretty good picture of who he is. I guess that would have been a better example.

Andrew: [00:23:05] Oh, so this is reversed. I am actually the famous

Bernie: [00:23:08] here. How come you're the famous

Andrew: [00:23:10] my mom, she's going to be really impressed. I actually, it's funny because this is why Daniel and I are too similar. Sometimes you said your friend's name was personally.

I was like, Oh, that's a cool name that Daniel said. And I was like,

Bernie: [00:23:21] dang it.

Andrew: [00:23:22] And then only enough, the two episodes I've listened to of you guys is actually the storm one. And then you're, there'd be juror blends because. I'm a huge D and D nerd,

Bernie: [00:23:30] Oh yeah, me too. I was

Andrew: [00:23:32] like, Oh, these are fun.

Bernie: [00:23:47] I will say was, I've been thinking about the, the question that Daniel asks, I think in the. Second, the part, two of your case for TV, about the things you're embarrassed to talk about on a first like [00:24:00] meeting someone and I struggled to find something. For you guys. Cause all my normal things like animate dentition dragons, video games, I feel are totally acceptable here with you guys.

So I was struggling to think of something good.

Daniel: [00:24:14] Yeah. It's funny. Cause we attribute that question to you in episode. I don't know if you remember, but you asked that question. I think it was at Cody and alley's engagement party, I think was where it was. But you asked it with a group of Frisbee people, and I actually had a similar response to you of what was all these Frisbee people like the things in my normal life that would probably be weird.

Video games, anime Frisbee. Those are all totally acceptable here. So I don't know. The thing that I might be most embarrassed about are just like the really normal things in my life. yeah. I go to church every Sunday pretty much,

have a nice steady marriage and don't really do drugs.

Andrew: [00:25:01] Okay. So don't do drugs. One is a real, that's a real thing, man. I. as a guy who, unfortunately, in my mind, hasn't really ever dabbled in that side of life. I feel like a failure. Whenever I talk to people like, everybody's cool with weed nowadays and everything. And someone's Hey, you smoke.

I'm like, for whatever reason, I'm always embarrassed to say no. I'm like, no I'm healthy.

Bernie: [00:25:27] Yeah. It is. It is interesting how that kind of turned around where. In different circles. You're like high, different parts of you. Yeah.

Andrew: [00:25:37] It's you can tell one group of people, Oh, I do this thing. And they were like, Oh yeah, you're one of us. Then you tell them a different group of people, the same thing.

And they're like the hell's wrong

Bernie: [00:25:46] with

Andrew: [00:25:46] you? And you're like, yeah, this is cool. This is me. Usually both groups have like something in your personality that. Neither one agrees with this is why none of us as adults have fronts,

Bernie: [00:25:57] it's tough to make new ones. So

Andrew: [00:26:00] Daniel and I were talking about video games before you hopped on because we play video games a lot.

I understand that you might be on that same page. So where are you on video games and making friends let's jump off there?

Bernie: [00:26:13] sure. So I love video games, play video games all the time. I am personally am a PC gamer. Is whereas where I live, I'm very excited for my little brother to go to college and I will inherit his PS4.

since he said, he's not taking that with him. So I'm looking forward to that, to play God of war and horizon, zero Dawn Spiderman game, and some other games

Daniel: [00:26:36] you can join us casuals on the console.

Andrew: [00:26:39] There's a game that comes out in a day. They are traffic. It's this Friday and it's called ghost the SU CAUTI butchering that I can't remember, but it's a samurai Ninja game from what I understand, but it is.

Getting rave reviews and I've seen it referenced as the Swan song. Oh, the PSVR. So [00:27:00] I highly recommend that just based on everybody else recommending it. I don't even have a PlayStation. I want to play it.

Bernie: [00:27:05] Great. I haven't actually, haven't heard much of that game. So I'm definitely going to have to check it out.

So I love video games. I use them a lot somewhere to what you guys have talked about in your past podcasts of staying connected with people. so I have a lot of friends from high school that I still talk with that I play video games recently we've been playing league of legends is one that we stays around and persists, but most recently there was a steam summer sale and steam is a.

Platform, you can buy video games on the computer and balloons seven mobile tower defense game was 99 cents. So we all bought it and we play that stuff times together. You can play with up to four people. So that's fun.

how do you play

Andrew: [00:27:53] balloons with people?

Bernie: [00:27:54] so it's online and you like Curry.

Everyone gets on, you create a little lobby and then you all place your little monkey towers on one track.

Daniel: [00:28:03] So is it kind of like winter mall on Warcraft three, if you ever played that?

Bernie: [00:28:10] A little bit. Okay. I'm getting confused with the tower defense on Warcraft three. Cause it's not, it's all cooperative.

It's not competitive at all.

Daniel: [00:28:16] Yeah. Winter mall is all the lanes feed into one lane. So it's if you screw the pooch and you leak, you better hope that everybody like backs you up. And

Bernie: [00:28:25] I know it's been a long time, so I'm planning to Warcraft three months. so I can't say that. I quite remember.

It's pretty similar to that. So that's been really fun. And most recent, along with that, we've been playing some games with up to 15 people can all play it together. And so I've been kind of meeting new people that way and making internet friends for lack of a better term. and I've done that a few different times.

I actually have a friend. His name is Justin and I've never seen him. Don't know what he looks like. I know he's in his thirties and he's like working on his PhD. And we play video games together sometimes. What do you all play? I met him playing league of legends mostly. so that's up to five people.

And so he knows another one of my friends from world of Warcraft. They were in a Guild together. Discord is a voice channel server. You can make your own servers and chat with people. They were playing league of legends instead of wow. I got invited to play with them cause they needed a fifth. So I met a bunch of people in GW, Justin, Travis, some other guys and befriended this internet group.

so now I have a whole new group of people to play games with that I wouldn't have.

Andrew: [00:29:39] That is so cool. I love that we can do that because it just seems so almost pure. You're making friends based on shared interest in. As a guy that's so guys friendships are so underrepresented. I don't even know what the term would be, but usually something encouraged, in guys is doing something like that.

[00:30:00] It's so cool to see other people do it. we used to make friends all the time on guilds and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Daniel: [00:30:04] I feel like it's a lot more encouraging now too. Cause I don't know the internet and just gaming community. I feel like so often it's just like really toxic.

That's why half the time, if I'm like I've been playing a lot of Overwatch and I usually just don't even join the voice channel. Cause I don't. Really care to hear somebody upset about another person, like not playing the game, the way that they think it should be played and all that stuff.

Andrew: [00:30:26] I just, I looked up that name, so I wanted it to be out there so people could be excited and not think I'm too crazy.

It's called the ghost of tsushimi crazy looking Japanese samurai game that you need to get for your PlayStation

Bernie: [00:30:38] to get it. Perfect. I've played all the way through Siqueiros so I feel trained and ready

Andrew: [00:30:45] pro.

Bernie: [00:30:48] It took me a long time. Don't get me wrong. It was also my first from software games who made all the dark souls.

So it was pretty interesting.

Andrew: [00:31:00] you never really told us what question you'd be embarrassed about. is there like a general thing, maybe not in a nerd podcast group, you don't know what's going on with these people. What is the bigger thing that you at least think people will judge you?

Bernie: [00:31:11] for? My obvious go to answers are don't really talk about Dungeons and dragons.

And I play a lot as in I think I'm currently in four active games along the line, and one of them is star Wars themed to be fair. And so I don't normally bring that up. That I'm that much into role playing games. I normally don't bring up my podcast cause that feels a little narcissistic. but for this group, I think I came up with one, I didn't know, probably knows about it, but Andrew, I'm not.

I'm curious about your opinions. I am a huge fan. Of K-pop. Yeah. I knew that

I really enjoy K-pop. whenever I play video games on my computer league of legends, rocket league, things like that, I have two monitors. That's all my big monitor. I have the video games. And on my smaller monitor, I have YouTube streams of these very attractive Korean women singing to me. That's awesome.

That's cool.

Daniel: [00:32:18] It's

Andrew: [00:32:20] fun. And I can't blame you for it.

Daniel: [00:32:23] Where

Andrew: [00:32:23] does the music,

Daniel: [00:32:24] where does Cy fall in terms of K-pop like, is that considered K-pop or no?

Bernie: [00:32:30] Yes, he is definitely K-pop, but he is unique in the sense that he is so artist, and there are definitely very popular solo artists, but the most more standard version of K-pop is kind of groups.

So you'll have boy groups or girl groups, varying from four to up to nine singers. And that's a more standard version think like BTS twice black, pink, red velvet.

Andrew: [00:32:58] who's your favorite group for you to [00:33:00] go check out then?

Bernie: [00:33:01] Who I think are going to have to get Noah to listen to some K-pop for the, do you check this out?

He already wants to do some of it. but my, I think my current favorite is it C. I T Z Y a, but I think the best K-pop group to listen to would be black. Pink. Okay. I'll pull them both up.

Andrew: [00:33:23] I'll get some YouTube going. Maybe it shouldn't YouTube girlfriend might be mad if I'm sitting there. We're watching Korean girls.

Bernie: [00:33:30] It is also a little, it does feel a little weird that most likely these, women are probably like in their very early twenties. And I'm now 28. And so it does make it feel a little weird watching it. So that's a, something I'm currently wrestling with.

Daniel: [00:33:58] Are you missing Frisbee right now? Bernie? Cause I'm missing it like crazy.

Bernie: [00:34:02] Oh, I am very much a what I've done instead. So ultra-phrase, we got canceled for the entire year due to the pandemic. So instead I've picked up disc golf as my new hobby.

Daniel: [00:34:14] I know a lot of people that,

Bernie: [00:34:16] yeah, I haven't really played a lot of disc off in the past.

and so some of my friends that are non-Frisbee people I've gotten into it, which has allowed me to go through that learning phase with other people who are learning it. And haven't been throwing disks for 10 to 12 years. So I got to be the best of the worst before I started playing with people who play a lot and become.

The worst of the best

Andrew: [00:34:44] golf discs hit differently than an ultimate disc does. I don't know about you guys y'all have better hands than I do, but. I can throw the Frisbee pretty. Okay. But when I get a disc golf disc, I can't do anything with it.

Bernie: [00:34:56] Yeah. they're designed incredibly differently. And so that's why it's a bit of a learning curve going from Frisbee to discs

Daniel: [00:35:03] all of the like IO stuff that you're used to.

It just, it totally messes it up.

Bernie: [00:35:11] So hopefully when we go back to Frisbee, whenever that is, I won't be. Completely been out of shape.

Daniel: [00:35:18] I am curious because in one

Bernie: [00:35:20] of

Daniel: [00:35:20] our episodes in the past, we talked a little bit about this concept of. a study that was done where when, the participants of the study were considering the steepness of a Hill, they estimated it to be more steep if they were looking at it alone, versus if they were looking at it with a friend nearby.

So I, I naturally just think a little bit about. You know how that applies to other things, just subbing in the Hill for whatever challenges in front of you. And so do you feel like, as you're looking at challenges, disc golf, which is an individual sport, if it's you've got to sink this hole to win versus like ultimate, if you're down [00:36:00] a point and you got to score to win, which challenge do you feel like is.

More insurmountable or like steeper to consider.

Bernie: [00:36:07] So I definitely think that going on things alone is much more difficult. So for disc golf, I get much more easily discouraged when I start doing poorly. because it's, Oh, if I start doing poorly, I've no one to blame, but myself and then I don't have anyone to look to cheer me up.

And even though my friends are incredibly positive and very. uplifting that doesn't make me feel better because it's, it's all on me. I have to be the one to do it. I'm by myself out there where an ultimate Frisbee, there's people to rely on and to look to for leadership guidance, help encouragement.

and I definitely, identify and I agree with that thought process of going into things together. It makes it a much easier task and with much more confidence as well, I would say the best place I've ever experienced. This is in high school and marching band. So really going to dig my nerd trench deep.

So I was in marching band in high school. And is the only place, the only experience competitive experience I've ever had, where there is absolutely no competition within the group. So in sports, in Frisbee and football, you always want to be the best player on the team cause otherwise you don't get to play.

Yeah. So there's always a little bit of internal competition. And even though you want your team to do well and you want your team to win, there's a little bit of internal. I want to play. So I still want to be better than them. Totally. And in marching band, no one else can March your spot. Cause it's the, the hundred, 200 people all trying to make shapes and stuff by where they stand on the football field.

And so there's no internal conflict because I want you to succeed because no one else can Mark your spot. You have to do it. So I'm going to do everything in my power to help you be successful. and so its people coming alongside of each other to be, to selflessly act for the team and the group. has been one of the most positive experiences I've ever had, and truly showing what selfless, like teamwork and camaraderie and looks like, I don't know if any parents are listening, but if your kid decides to want to do marching band, I would highly encourage you that you let them, even if they look like big and those dumb hats,

Daniel: [00:38:40] man, where were you like?

10 wait, no, 15 years ago when Andrew and I both w Indra, did you do a week of marching band before dropping out? I know I did a week.

Andrew: [00:38:54] Tennis was a week later. And I was like, I can sleep in for an extra week and I have to choose anyways [00:39:00] by a marching band.

Daniel: [00:39:02] It's interesting. One, I never considered that about marching band and that's fascinating.

Cause you are spot on about how even team sports have a really competitive nature within the sport. So I've never considered, how pure a competition like marching band could be. Cause you're right. Like Frisbee it's yeah. I want the team to win, but I want to score the goal or I want to throw it or even like tennis and doubles.

I was kind of thinking about that. Cause that's what Andrew and I opted for long. I didn't bring us

Andrew: [00:39:31] down. It's

Daniel: [00:39:32] okay. Or it's I want to be the one to like. Hit the winter or get the overhead slam and all that sort of stuff. And if you've got a really great team, then maybe that competition side is downplayed a bit, but I feel like it is always still there a little bit.

Bernie: [00:39:46] Yeah. And that's where Margie van I find is almost. Completely unique. I struggled to think of any other kind of competition where it's the same. and so it's, I think is one of the most perfect examples of how teamwork, comradery and relationships can push people to overcome things they thought were impossible, or to give life experiences that I believe make people better.

People. That it gives them more empathy, allows them to build relationships that they wouldn't otherwise it's build and begin to look beyond themselves in a sense of, I want to win as a team. You have to do good. And so I'm going to help you however I can. I'll stay late after school. I'll help you learn, I'll work with you because if I want to win.

you gotta step up and so push each other to be better. I think Marsha band is a complete unique experience that I would highly encourage people to do, but I know it's not for everyone. People don't like to stand outside on. The concrete at five o'clock on an August afternoon.

I understand

Daniel: [00:41:01] I'm remembering now by why I opted to not do marching band.

Bernie: [00:41:05] Oh yeah. I lost a month of summer, every year in high school to go stand on a hot concrete parking lot with my trombone. Yeah. That's a tough trade. So

Andrew: [00:41:16] I know you just said it was like a super unique, only marching being kind of experience, but then this might show my one track mind.

Is D and D not similar. I haven't actually had that experience in D and D a lot of the times there's a lot of infighting in the games that I've played both. It's probably me as a personality. I bring trouble out a part of myself that I really should work the exact same way. Cause there is not a single winner in D and D you're working cooperatively.

So do you see that in your multitude of campaigns, you're playing. So that's

Bernie: [00:41:49] interesting. I haven't thought about that before. I think in D and D as a, as a culture, I think there's a lot [00:42:00] of different types of players, right? Some people really like to role play. Other people, really like to crunch the numbers and be the most efficient they can be.

But I think if you boil it down, it's I think it's somewhere in between. Marching band and like team sports and the sense of. No, you don't want to take someone else's spot. But I do think that people want to be in the spotlight. They want to be the cool guy and they want to have their moments to shine

Andrew: [00:42:31] whenever you're playing.

Is that something that you've actually noticed yourself doing? Or is there is it the new doing it or is it the person who played it the longest? Like how do you have a good group?

Bernie: [00:42:40] so I, something that I should struggle with is I crave attention. I know that about myself. I love to be up in front, acting goofy, all eyes on me.

I know that I struggle with that wanting to always be in the action and never let other people take the spotlight and shine. But I think a good group falls on communication and everyone understanding kind of what type of game you're trying to run. And what the goal of the game is, and the style that you're playing and then trust with each other and the different players.

So the groups I'm playing with, I'm playing with a group of friends from high school that we've been playing now for about four years, maybe every other week or so. and that group has fallen into a very nice, comfortable kind of culture, for lack of a better term, where people fallen into roles that they feel more comfortable with.

and that I have a great time with that. I just actually finished, that group, and now my roommate is running it and it's been a lot of fun. And then in other groups I've played in where it's more people who don't know each other very well. It's a lot of, just being courteous and respectful.

and so D and other role playing games, I think offer a very different style of interaction, and allow people to explore themselves, and just social settings, in a very unique way while creating fun. I've seen stories with their friends. Very

Andrew: [00:44:14] cool.

You have any. Christians that are maybe more oriented towards our less nerdy audience,

Daniel: [00:44:34] almost,

Bernie: [00:44:35] but really going to struggle with, to be on this podcast.

Daniel: [00:44:40] I'm just, I'm still thinking about the marching band thing, where to flag to where twirlers fall. And to that.

Bernie: [00:44:47] So there at least the, my marching band that I participated in, I can't speak for the DCI or drum Corps international, which is, you can think of it as like the professional circuit of marching bands, but [00:45:00] there is the front ensemble or the pit.

And they have all like the pianos and the xylophones and stuff like that. Then you have the marching band themselves with all the instruments, right? That's what you think of. And then the color guard or the flag twirlers and stuff like that, they are their own separate group, at least in high school.

They weren't in like the band class with you. but at the end of the day, you're re rated on the entire ensemble. So if the color guards mess up. then that reflects on the entire band. So it's a little more difficult. I didn't ever feel quite as much comradery with the color guard just because they were their own thing, did their own thing, have their own practices, that kind of stuff.

but when it came down to all of us working together for the goal, they. We're just as important.

Daniel: [00:46:00] All right, Bernie. So you play a lot of video games, obviously, Andrew and I play a lot of video games. We've talked about D and D books. Consume a lot of media and a lot of entertainment, but I'm curious, is there anything that you do to limit your consumption or are there any steps you take to try to avoid that habits or things like that?

Bernie: [00:46:21] For me, I've what helps me to fight those things is I've experienced the negative side of those things of video games, media consumption. so I got laid off from my job probably about two and a half years ago now, or so, and I was unemployed for around six months. And during that time, I don't know enough about clinical depression and things like that to really speak authoritatively on them.

But I definitely did not feel good about things or myself for a few months. and I. Kind of became what you think of when you think of a, someone who is uncontrollable with new games or TV, things of that nature, to the point where I lacked any motivation to look for work or to add the kind of the lowest of the lows, had to motivate myself.

To go to the grocery to get things. So that just seems like too much work or too much of a hassle. And so I just go get fast food, or I ate a lot of, fat bough. If anyone knows what that restaurant is, it's pretty good, but not healthy. So I fell into this place where I consider myself to be pretty extroverted person likes social gatherings.

Cause I was embarrassed or. I felt that because I got laid off that I didn't have as much worth anymore and that I didn't want to go see people. And then I would go, if they asked me about finding a job, I haven't looked for a job yet. Oh, I don't want to have to deal with that. And so I fell way deep into.

Kind of escapism with [00:48:00] video games, Netflix, things like that. YouTube is a big vise for me that has, once I got out of that, found a job, got my life back on track. You could say, that has been something that is a reference point for me, that when I begin to feel those feelings again and see those things rear back up in my life, it's definitely something that.

Sets off alarm bells of no, you can't do that. you know where that was, that you have that within you to be that type of person. and so that helps me to recognize when I feel that way or when I start becoming that, and to actively change, to go outside, to meet people, to go see my family, to get up and.

B and do something else now that doesn't really help people if they're struggling with, in the sense of, yeah. Just go up and do it, Just get out of your house. That's not really a solution. so for me, what things that have helped me, I think accountability and finding support groups are enormous.

I have through my church, a small group of there's me and four other guys that I meet with weekly. We've been meeting on zoom, which has been nice, but not as good. and for us, we talk a lot about spiritual things about where our relationship with Christ is, but also it's a good place for just to bounce ideas off of, and to tell them, Hey, I'm struggling with this.

I feel this way. And to have people check in on you to keep you accountable and help pull you out of there, it's definitely very scary and hard to find people that you trust like that it has been an enormous blessing for me and definitely a way that I wouldn't. Being able to be the person and without that.

So yeah, that's I

Andrew: [00:49:57] was just gonna say, that's incredible that you're able to pull yourself out of that because that is well-timed on the situation we have. There's a lot of people getting laid off that are probably falling into the same boat that you fell into and that's, that is hard to pull yourself out.

Of something like that, because it's easy to do. You just start playing video games and you have dark thoughts and a lot of shame comes up from it that reinforces the habits you're building. And this is a bad time for a lot of people because they're going to be going through that same thing that you were luckily enough to be able to pull yourself out of that.

That's really cool.

Bernie: [00:50:29] Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think you've really hit it right there. That shame reinforces the bad habits and the negative thoughts. I think that is exactly what happened to me. And I will say, I say that it's scary and it's hard once you're in there to fight your way out. But speaking from personal experience, it's so much better to not be afraid to go outside or to meet people or to talk with people or to have to hide from your family because you're embarrassed of what they might ask, [00:51:00] but it's definitely not easy.

and so accountability groups and finding people you can be vulnerable with has been huge. and then something else, a little more practical. What I do for at work, I have a few alarms on my phone. At nine o'clock and three o'clock and things like that say get up from your desk and go walk around to just help me stay active.

So I'm not just sitting at my desk for nine hours. And I've used that to push myself in other areas. And so just as a practical tip, I don't know if that's what people are looking for, where you guys are looking for. but I set a bunch of alarms on my phone that just go off throughout the day to help remind myself and keep myself accountable, to do the things that I.

Plan on doing or would like to do?

Daniel: [00:51:42] Yeah, I think that's huge. I do the same thing every morning. I pretty much put down the two or three things that I want to do for the day. And it's just the act of writing it. The act of seeing it's. I don't know. it's that, it's only me. That's accountable is that list.

I don't share that with anybody else, but even that step itself still just helps me to achieve the goals that I'm looking for and getting up and walking around. And that's certainly an important one right now.

Andrew: [00:52:14] That's totally important. People that are struggling with that. If they are waking up and saying there's nothing I have to do because I just woke up and the day's open.

Next thing, it's 8:00 PM and you have just been sitting around in your underwear playing video games. So making that a habit, whether or not you have a job or whatever you're going through is awesome, because it's going to give you something to almost reference, to be like, Hey, I can sit down after I've gotten these two or three things done.

Yeah. Once you start getting going on that, I think you almost mentally want to keep going. You don't just say, Hey, I'm going to take out the trash. You'd go, Hey, took out the trash and you do these other things too. And you just, it builds on itself.

Bernie: [00:52:53] Yeah. I definitely think that both with good and bad things, the more you do it, the more it reinforces it, the easier it is to do it.

It's definitely hard. And I speak from experience. It was very hard and so easy just to fall back into what you've been doing. What's easy. It's definitely something that I've gone through and it's good to have that perspective, but I wish I didn't have to go through it to get to where I am now.

Andrew: [00:53:17] I see. I see.

I've got a, I've got one last question for you to wrap it up with maybe something a little more positive or not that wasn't positive, but on the wider side, so back to D and D your final shot at imparting wisdom on our potential D and D what is your favorite class and race to play?

Bernie: [00:53:49] That is tough. So I think I used to play only martial classes, so like fighter barbarian. I stopped, but I think my favorite [00:54:00] class would be barred, which are the music syllabus, always of D and D I guess I don't have to be, but a lot of the time they are. and so I really liked that. They have a lot of musicality to them in a lot of their spells and things like inspiration or vicious mockery.

I want, I, personally I have to do is challenge myself. Okay. if I'm going to inspire this person, how would I do that? And come up with either a silly rhyme or a cover of a song, things like that, or the, of vicious mockery coming up with fun and witty insults to insult my foes with a, so I'm currently playing a Bard in my friend Patrick's campaign.

Who I'm sure Daniel has talked about. And no, it's not. It's a human, his name's Anne Fran. it's definitely. I don't, I haven't played any gnomes. I don't know. And critical role. I've watched the entire first season of that, which is bad in and of itself.

Okay, good. good. Good. If anyone out there listens to watch this critical role, more power to you, but. Spent 500 hours watching the whole first season. Dang. Over years over time, right? It wasn't like a month. Correct? Have your goals, bro. but I think if I had to pick a favorite race, that's tough.

I don't know. I don't really have one, pick dragon born. Cause I think they're pretty cool. They can spit different elements, but I don't play them too often because I get a little frayed of being deemed an edge Lord by playing like a T flame or a dragon born.

Andrew: [00:55:35] That's fair

Daniel: [00:55:36] and I need, I'm lost,

Bernie: [00:55:41] sorry, Daniel. that's for us.

Daniel: [00:55:43] That's all right. I thoroughly enjoyed the D and D game in Colorado that one shot where you and. Patrick essentially did all of the work for us. And all we had to do was just goof around

Bernie: [00:55:54] a lot. Yeah.

Daniel: [00:55:55] Just show up and talking goofy voices to each other.

Andrew: [00:55:59] this was dead by tomorrow with Daniel winter, Andrew Monroe and our special guest, Kevin Burney land a big thank you to Kevin and do check this out podcast for letting us. Borrow him and absolutely need to go check out their podcast, which is ironic since it says, check this out, but definitely go to live, subscribe to them and help them out.

It's always nice to support each other in this kind of endeavor. So especially on Spotify for the record, if you haven't started listening to us or you check this out, Spotify, the great place that just start doing some ranking stuff that we're hoping to get up on. So we really appreciate you coming by and Kevin, thank you so much for taking time out of the day and talking with us.

It's such a good time.

Bernie: [00:56:47] Hey, not a problem, man. Anytime it would have come back on. Just let me know. I love talking into microphones. That's awesome.

Andrew: [00:56:57] we look forward to connecting with everybody soon and [00:57:00] till next time.

Bernie: [00:57:00] Bye.