Interview With Beth Winter- Forerunner Mentoring (#15)

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September 22, 2020

Interview With Beth Winter- Forerunner Mentoring (#15)

Our very own host, Daniel, brought his sister Beth on for this episode. Beth is a mentor and coordinator for the Forerunner program in Dallas, TX. We cover how mentoring and being mentored can help you grow and make better decisions, how dealing with chronic illness can help you fix your mindsets, why you should ask better questions, and the relationship between fear and curiosity, just to name a few. Oh, and how Beth lost her "warrior spirit" according to Daniel when they were kids.

*Dead by Tomorrow may receive commission on links in these and other posts on the website*

Show Notes:

Forerunner Mentoring:

"We build relationships with kids to fulfill their potential through mentoring, programs, and supporting families in the name of Jesus."

Forerunner Donations:

If a young man grows up in a home without a father figure present, who is going to teach him to become a positive and productive male member of society?

Andrew's Continuing Enneagram Results:

Round 2!

Per our wing conversation it actually looks like I'm balanced between the wing 2 & 4. That said, after digging deeper and if I had to pick a wing to describe me, it'd be a type 3 wing 2. But really, it's pretty even.

Why?- 3w4 explanation vs 3w2 explanation.

Want to take the test?

Enneagram results meaning-

Andrew's Enneagram Results (not for use against Andrew unless it's trial by combat).

Atomic Habits:

No matter your goals, Atomic Habits offers a proven framework for improving - every day. James Clear, one of the world's leading experts on habit formation, reveals practical strategies that will teach you exactly how to form good habits, break bad ones, and master the tiny behaviors that lead to remarkable results.

White Coat Syndrome:

White coat syndrome refers to the situation where a patient’s blood pressure readings are high when measured in a medical environment, such as during a routine check-up at the doctor’s office, but their blood pressure is normal in most other circumstances.

Aggregation of Marginal Gains:

Increasing even by 1% every day will help you grow exponentially over the long run.

Rothfuss Quote:

Name of the Wind on Amazon.

“We understand how dangerous a mask can be. We all become what we pretend to be.”-Rothfuss, Name of the Wind.

How to Ask Better questions:

Questioning is a uniquely powerful tool for unlocking value in organizations: It spurs learning and the exchange of ideas, it fuels innovation and performance improvement, it builds rapport and trust among team members. And it can mitigate business risk by uncovering unforeseen pitfalls and hazards.

Wim Hof:

The Wim Hof Method is a simple, yet powerful method, based on the foundation of three pillars; Breathing, Cold Therapy and Commitment. It's the combination of these three elements that makes the Wim Hof Method uniquely powerful.

What Doesn't Kill Us (Wim Hof Book):

What Doesn't Kill Us, a New York Times best seller, traces our evolutionary journey back to a time when survival depended on how well we adapted to the environment around us.

Our ancestors crossed deserts, mountains, and oceans without even a whisper of what anyone today might consider modern technology. Those feats of endurance now seem impossible in an age where we take comfort for granted. But what if we could regain some of our lost evolutionary strength by simulating the environmental conditions of our forbears?

Episode Transcript

Andrew: Hello everybody! Welcome back to this week's, today's, whatever form of, listening frequency that you go for, episode. So today we have Beth, who is Daniel's sister, Beth winter, and she works for Forerunner. It's a mentorship program. And coincidentally enough, they were actually doing a fundraiser recently.

So if you're listening to this and you've been trying to figure out what to do with some money, you want to help some kids do some good. You definitely need to check out the links for this episode and go swing by Forerunner and help those guys out. Cause they're doing good work. So I don't know, Beth nearly as well as Daniel obviously does, it being his sister.

But I know she's been through some ups and downs and is currently working for Forerunner and helping mentor a lot of kids. And I think she's also helping Daniel live his life to his fullest. So with that's set on my part, Daniel, what do you got?

Daniel : [00:01:13] Helping to live my life to my fullest.

Andrew: [00:01:17] you seem to be doing fine and Hilary hasn't killed you yet. So I'm crediting that to Beth.

Daniel : [00:01:21] That's a creative way of saying that Beth lives with us right now in Dallas. So I guess you're saying that roommates help people live their lives to their fullest,

Andrew: [00:01:35] I hope so, or they can probably have a negative effect. It's not.

Daniel : [00:01:39] Something like that. okay. So obviously Beth, I know you very well and for those that are not your blood relatives that have not grown up with you and been with you since birth, what are just some of the highlights that you would share?

If you're trying to say, Hey, this is who I am and what I'm about.

Beth: [00:02:02] Oh man. Like a. Personal mission statement, bullet points. I made, if you talk in any gram and things like that, if you just talk in personality, I'm a pretty, I love challenges. And so a lot of my life, a lot of my highlights in my life have been overcoming challenges and that's something I'm really passionate about.

I'm kind of a private person. So just being asked to share like highlights of my life has hard for me. I'm like, I don't know. So who else is listening to this? And that's hard for me, but I'm an introvert. I'm, alumni from Texas tech. I've been in ministry for over. Eight years.

and I love kids. I work with kids. That's what I do right now.

Andrew: [00:02:42] now millions of people know that. So your private life is no longer private.

Beth: [00:02:46] Yeah. millions listening to this podcast right now.

Daniel : [00:02:50] At least when we lost count it, So

introvert that's you may be. The first introvert that we've talked to on our podcast. [00:03:00] I'm not sure. I'm trying to think. yeah, pretty likely. So I know that you've listened to a handful of the episodes. We've done. Andrew and I are both obviously extroverts. So has there been anything that sticks out where you're like, yeah.

Okay. Obviously extroverts, you think that you feel that way, but does not apply to introverts.

Beth: [00:03:20] I don't know if it's necessarily an introvert extrovert thing, but I do know that like sometimes Getting up and doing challenges. You guys talk a lot about doing that with other people and for introverts, I think that can be a challenge in itself because then it becomes two challenges.

You're like setting a goal maybe of, I want to go to the gym and workout, and then there's this additional factor of needing people to go with and hold you accountable. And so it feels a little more challenging. it's a double whammy for introverts.

Andrew: [00:03:50] That is wildly accurate and something that I would have never thought of. And I'm looking because that kind of thing does not occur to me. And you are right. That is probably a problem for introverts. Sorry guys.

Beth: [00:04:01] Okay, where are you used to it?

Daniel : [00:04:04] To be fair. We did at least take the time to really try to explain why relationships are valuable so that if you weren't sold on the idea of you know who cares? If this will help me form relationships, we try to at least say, Hey, you should probably care somewhat.

Beth: [00:04:19] Oh yeah. And introverts like relationships too. It's just, it's a little. It's a bigger task for us.

Andrew: [00:04:26] They, and maybe this is going to get me lynched or burned at the time steak. But to me it seems like introverts just there very resistant towards those kind of relationships until they just they're like, you know what? I've got to get one, like friend down or, I've got to have that person.

And so pick one and then it's done LA down forever.

Beth: [00:04:43] Totally. That's one of the biggest differences between me and Daniel, I feel like is I'll have like my core group of friends and I'm like, I'm good. I'm not really interested in forming more relationships. And Daniel's wants everyone to be friends. And he wants all his different social groups to know each other and he wants to keep expanding and invite everyone to everything.

And I'm just like, nah.

Andrew: [00:05:04] You compartmentalize that

Beth: [00:05:06] Oh, yeah.

Daniel : [00:05:07] And that's literally the whole entire purpose of our yearly star Wars gathering is to not just bring friends in the city together, but say, Hey, like all of my friends that live in any place, this is an excuse for you to now come to Dallas and hopefully meet any other friends that I've managed to make in the

Andrew: [00:05:25] Absolutely. Let us feast and watch star Wars and meet new people.

Beth: [00:05:29] It's a good goal. I'm not saying my way is a good, healthy thing. I'm just, that's where I'm at.

Andrew: [00:05:35] Nope. Fair enough. Fair enough. So I don't really know what you do day to day. what is a mentor at Forerunner actually do? what time do you go to work and what did they make you do? And how does that all work?

Beth: [00:05:48] so yeah, I, Forerunner mentoring is like a nonprofit organization in Dallas. We serve kids from hard places. It's a boys only program. And somehow I, as a woman ended up in [00:06:00] charge of this K through six afterschool program for all these boys. And so, I'm. Running up to schools, I'm meeting moms, I'm developing curriculum and policies and procedures.

And then all afternoon, I'm hanging out with boys like K through sixth grade boys. so it's a pretty interesting time.

Daniel : [00:06:18] Have you started playing Fortnite yet?

Beth: [00:06:20] I've never played Fortnite, but I do. I can recognize all the dances. I can't do them, but it is pretty popular. Even like our kindergarteners, we'll talk about fortnight.

I'm just like what? Just go outside.

Andrew: [00:06:33] Hey, going outside is dangerous. And that is not a thing we do as Americans anymore. Dangerous. A no-no got

speaking of pet peeve real quick. People always tell me to be careful when I'm like going somewhere, doing something like what do you think this is? we don't go to the mall carefully.

Come on. But

Beth: [00:06:48] Like when you're leaving and someone says, drive careful.

Andrew: [00:06:50] Oh, yeah. And that's more genuine, but I dunno, just in general when someone like cautions me to be careful, it's just we could be asking for better things of ourselves and just carefulness, which it's a good thing, but we won't go down that rabbit hole because I'll probably ran and again, get burned at the stake.

So let's just skip that one too.

Beth: [00:07:08] Sounds good.

Andrew: [00:07:09] So what is it like hanging out with all these boys? Is it like growing up with your brother again? Or do you have a whole news perspective and you're able to influence them in a more positive way than like a brother, sister relationship might've been.

Beth: [00:07:21] there are some things that remind me of like my relationship with my brother, but it's just different because these kids are. From difficult backgrounds. Most of them, a lot of our kids in our program don't have father figures in the home and that's why we started. That's why we mentor. a lot of our kids are from impoverished backgrounds.

A lot of them have been through just hard, injustices racism, and, just have teachers who just think the worst of them. And so it's, there's a lot of discouragement in our kids. One of the things that I get to do in my, one of my favorite things in life to do is just help kids believe in themselves.

and so a lot of my time is just spent speaking truth over kids and, just inspiring them to overcome challenges. that's just something I'm really passionate about. I love the idea of people overcoming things they didn't think they could overcome. and so just getting a walk alongside them in that process is.

That's what I love doing.

Andrew: [00:08:17] I dig it. That's really cool. So I've got one more question before I pass it on to Daniel, actually let him ask some questions, but you got both of us start on the Atomic Habits thing, really? Like you told Daniel about it and then Daniel talked about it and then I got it. And so that whole thing, was there anything in atomic habits , that really stood out to you and on top of that, is there anything from.

That kind of mindset. The book focuses on that you're able to use with these kids.

Beth: [00:08:41] Yeah, I actually, yeah. Remind me if I don't answer one of those questions.

Andrew: [00:08:46] I'll forget. Don't worry.

Beth: [00:08:47] Hopefully something good is said. I actually started that book because as we, as a staff at foreigner Reddit, one of our core values is always be growing. And so as a part of our Monday staff meetings, we have an ABG [00:09:00] assignment always be growing.

And so reading that book was one of our assignments and, um, we all had to. Tell him together and talk about our goals and our takeaways from it and how we can do our jobs better. and then I pass that buck. I want to like six other people. Cause I thought it was awesome. But one of the things that stood out to me the most about that book was, he talks about deciding the person that you want to be.

And I don't think a lot of people have had someone tell them, you can do that. You can consciously decide. Who you want to be and like, have you taken the time to think about that? And so I liked that and then he also says, decide who you want to be, and then prove it to yourself with small wins every day.

and I just, I think there's a lot of integrity in that and I'm really passionate about integrity and I haven't thought of it in that way of proving to myself through my small choices every day, that I'm serious about the person that I want to be. So that was one of my biggest takeaways.

Andrew: [00:09:57] Very cool. I like it. I think that actually came up recently. I'm not sure if that was an episode of, we were just chatting, but we talked about that identity. Mindset where you actually get to choose the type of person you want to be and who you get to become. And it's really powerful. I know, I like, I don't like, but I can totally onions now just because I told myself for months and months that I was like, you like onions.

Daniel : [00:10:16] That's huge. I didn't

know that

Andrew: [00:10:18] I did the same with needles actually.

Daniel : [00:10:20] You're eating needles.

Andrew: [00:10:21] so I, they still make me uncomfortable and I still need that litany against fear to really get in the right mindset. But, uh, I spent months, cause I knew I was getting a cavity filled. I'm pretty sure it was a cavity. Someone was going to poke me with a real needle, but not a tattoo needle, which I came to find out. It does not count in that mental aspect. So anyways, I knew it was coming and I had four to six months of prep time. And so I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna go to tell myself that I'm not freaked out by needles and I'm totally cool with them.

And so I did that for and when the appointment came I was chill. like deep down, I was still a little freaked out, but it's like water for me now. Like I used to be scared of really deep water. And it's the same thing. Like, there's this part, it's almost like you locked it in a cell, like inside of you and you can hear like yelling out for you to, listen, but it's this muffled cry of fear instead of this actual level of fear that you receive.


Beth: [00:11:07] Yeah. It's like the. Anxiety in your body and adrenaline, like from excitement, it's telling your brain the same things. And so you can just tell yourself I'm really excited right now to get this needle versus I'm so scared right now.

That's what I do

Andrew: [00:11:22] it was close enough to , like, I was like, Hey, this is good. I can handle this. I can go in it was chill. I still wasn't in, I still have to have prep time. Like I can't just someone whips out a needle, I'm gonna be like, Whoa, Hey, we're about to fight. But. If I'm, if I know it's coming and I have that moment to like collect myself and remind myself that I'm not scared of needles, then I become noticeably less scared of needles than I am. I feel like someone just whips went out on me.

Beth: [00:11:45] I'd probably be scared of anything just suddenly coming at me, but yeah, definitely needles.

Andrew: [00:11:50] Okay. Anybody just wielding needles randomly out there, please stop doing that. You're a bad person. No one appreciates that.

Beth: [00:11:57] No one.

Daniel : [00:11:58] You work in a [00:12:00] mentor program, you're a director at a mentor program. And I would assume that mentoring is something that's important in your life. Probably something that you came across before working at Forerunner. And so what has been the impact in your personal life, on, having mentors who is, really fill that space for you, but what meaning has that brought to your life on a personal

Daniel & Beth: [00:12:23] level?

Beth: [00:12:23] yeah, I really didn't even, I don't think I knew the word mentoring until a few years ago. I was an intern at a place called the Wesley foundation at Texas tech, shout out to Al Martin and Scott Latham over there and all the other people. But, yeah, I was an intern there and as a part of our internship program, We were required to meet with the mentoring director every week.

And he basically mentored us on how to mentor others. and so a big part of my time there was my schedule is just filled up. With mentoring college students. And I didn't really know how to do that. And so is learning on the spot, being mentored myself while doing this for other people. but through that time I just became, yeah, I'm really passionate about mentoring because of the things I got to walk through with the girls, I was mentoring.

and I also just saw the impact of it in my life because, I have great parents, and they did an awesome job. hopefully raising me, I guess that's up for debate.

Daniel : [00:13:25] but you shouldn't let other people tell you that before you just say that.

Beth: [00:13:28] I, I was, I had to give them credit, but then I realized it came across as maybe like I'm also, they did so good.

but like your parents, they are mentors to you, but there's just a different, there's a different impact when somebody else. Who isn't required to love you and care about you because they like gave birth to you and raise you. And there's just a different impact whenever they take an interest in you and kind of, especially if they have an interest in the thing you're passionate about and just take you under their wing.

and they're guiding you through. Those next steps of, especially in adulthood of, developing, this is who I want to be. This is the career path I want to go down. and so that's what this person did for me. And he just helped me go through some of the hardest times in my life, while I was being mentored by him and throughout it all, I would say that his mentorship helped me become proud of who I am today.

and I was proud of the choices I made going through the hardest times of my life. And I just don't know if I would have been able to say that if there wasn't someone just really looking out for me and challenging me and reminding me like, Hey, you said, this is who you want to be. Let's rise up and do it.

Daniel : [00:14:40] having somebody. Affirm. Those identities is really important. Having somebody that, especially has walked some of those paths before and can help to guide you and help you know what is OK, and what is expected and what is [00:15:00] not okay. And some of those types of things can be really valuable.

So for you, it sounds like that was. I won't say forced upon you, but highly encouraged through the West. It wasn't necessarily this organic process where all of a sudden you woke up and you're like, I have a mentor. It was, there was purposeful action that went into it. And so is that something where do you see still have a person that you consider or a mentor, and , if you don't, are you working towards that?

And. Just thinking of others, like how can somebody work towards finding a mentor if they're not in a program where it's okay, this is something we do.

Beth: [00:15:34] Yeah. since I just moved to Dallas in the last year, I need to find a mentor here in Dallas and that's on like my goals for this year. and so I think.

You can have long distance mentors, but I do think that there is a benefit of having somebody actually like who's living life with you and you can meet face to face. and so I do think sometimes mentors are there for a season. I'm like this mentor in Lubbock was for me, but as far as finding a mentor, I think with any relationships, there's just a lot of courage.

In pursuing something that you want. if you want a mentor, you're going to have to ask someone to mentor you. if you want to be a mentor, you may have to ask someone to be your mentee, because I don't know that everybody is necessarily looking around and thinking, Oh my gosh, I want to learn from you.

Would you spend time with me? I think most people's default is, Oh, I would love to learn from that person, but they probably don't have time for me. They don't want to. carve out their busy schedule with me. but I think he'd be surprised to see it's like a really honoring thing to be asked to be a mentor.

And then it's just, I'm a really a encouraging thing to be asked to be, a mentor, because there's just, something really special about somebody saying you're so important to me. I'm going to make time for you every single week or, a few times a month. I'm going to put you on my schedule and just hear about.

You and care about you. but it definitely takes courage. You have to ask, you have to seek it out.

Daniel : [00:16:58] Yeah. And I think for me, A natural place for those mentor relationships and interactions can happen is the job, depending on the job you do, obviously, if you're a sole proprietor or something like that, you're probably not going to have a mentor in your job.

You're probably have to seek it out a little bit more of it as something where I feel like within my company, they're always been. People, whether it was my direct supervisor or just somebody that I interacted with that I felt like I could really look up to. And I saw the way that they held themselves, the way that they interact with others.

I also heard, the way that my peers, talked about them and you have this feeling of, okay. I would like to who embody some of those characteristics, to have. people that are reporting to me say the sort of things about me that I'm hearing said about this person. And I won't say that I've necessarily gone to anybody and said, Hey, will you be my mentor?

But, I have definitely whether it was my boss and just really [00:18:00] being open about, Things that I want to achieve or things that I admire about them. Or, I remember there was, um, a guy in our office. His name is Clint and I just always felt like Clint was, one of the most genuine, hardworking people that I have ever met.

he was. Very high up within our organization. but he was willing to do whatever was asked of him. He legitimately was one of these people that he would never do something or ask something of somebody that he wouldn't be willing to do himself. I remember one time, we needed to like, Get some like really menial data entry sort of stuff.

And that it's like the kind of thing you hired into her in turn four. And so we were trying to find just some people to get it done. And he was like, Hey, if all else fails, I'll just bring my laptop home and plug away at these numbers while I'm watching football this weekend. And that was just his mindset was he was somebody that was going to get it done.

And he. Literally lived out the idea of leaders eat last. So anytime we had breakfast or those types of things, he always made sure that he was serving everybody. He was the last person to get his plate. and I remember when he left, he brought the leadership shit team together and it was, it was a little bit sudden his departure and I know I was.

Kind of shaken up by it. And he talked to us about how sometimes as a leader, your role is to, really to make these changes, to take back action, to set things up and to really, be example for the team. And then also sometimes your role as a leader is to recognize that it's time to step aside and let somebody else grow up into that position that you've hopefully prepared them for.

And. to be willing to sacrifice that for yourself and say, okay, I'm, at this point I'm actually the thing that is hindering the growth of the team and others are going to be able to spread their wings more. If I step aside and, he said, it's time for me to do that. And he named the people that would be able to step up into those positions and be able to grow.

And he was. 100%, right? Like it hurt at the time. But just seeing the growth that happened from it was so true. And so he was the one that I called out, the things that I admired in him and, you know, Hey, I really respect this about you. And so he took the time to just tell me, his approach to that, his mindset on that and how he was able to sort of do those things.

Beth: [00:20:26] I definitely think that some mentor relationships are like an official thing, but then I think more often it's like that where you just see somebody who does something or has a characteristic that you're like, I want to be like that. And you learn from them and they may never even know the impact that they had on you.

they may never know that you are watching them and trying to model yourself after them.

Andrew: [00:20:48] since y'all are both having experienced this kind of thing, I've got a question for you guys that I might be leading the witness on, but is there a difference you guys see and people who are successfully mentored or [00:21:00] having successful mentor mentoree relationship versus those who aren't, you know, either in the Forerunner program or at a light.

Beth: [00:21:08] From the mentor perspective successful or as a mentee being successful.

Andrew: [00:21:12] Either one, what would make a, what makes a relationship successful for either person?

Beth: [00:21:18] I would say some of the things that I've seen either way that makes it successful is just first consistency, just showing up, and continuing to show up, even when you don't feel like it's worth your time. Or that anything is actually being productive or fruitful, for our kids, forerunner kids are, we're not going to tell you, Oh my gosh, I am learning so much from you.

This is changing my life. I'm so glad that you made time for me. You're not going to hear those things. And for mentoring kids, like he may not see any of the fruit of your labor until they're like in their twenties. and so it can be a long con for that. but I would say just showing up, you have no idea the impact that it makes of just being a consistent presence and being a consistent voice.

When you do show up, I'm saying the same things, following through on things being like a man or woman of your word,

Andrew: [00:22:10] Do you ever have problems with. These kids. Cause they're, I'm not going to say they're forced into this, but ever a, maybe a little unwilling?

Beth: [00:22:19] I am sure in the history that there's definitely been kids who are her, like, I don't need you. but for the most part, this is actually something. Kids who haven't been paired with a mentor yet are begging us. When can you bring me a mentor? They'll just go up to any adult who walks in the building and say, are you my mentor?

Can you be my mentor?

It's a little sad. It's a little sweet. but yeah, for the most part, who doesn't want special attention? who doesn't want somebody, who's gonna say you're going to be the one that I give my time to, and you're worthy of that. You're valuable of that. Like I think even as adults, we crave that we want somebody to think we're special and give us, I don't know, one on one attention sometimes and think the world of us.

Andrew: [00:23:05] Everybody wants a Gandalf and Dumbledore to pay attention

Beth: [00:23:07] Right.

Andrew: [00:23:08] So,

what about you, Daniel? Is there anything you notice in your environment that make successful, mentees or mentors?

Daniel : [00:23:15] for sure. I'd say humility is. Probably the biggest thing, somebody on both sides being really humble, it can cover a multitude of sins, so to speak, that as a mentor, that can be humble. And in recognizing that you may give some advice to someone that doesn't work, or you may. Just respond in such a way that isn't necessarily loving or beneficial.

And just being willing to, even though you're the person that's supposed to be, the senior leader or whatever it is just being willing to apologize and say, Hey, you know what? That was my bad. that is huge. And I think that just will garner so much more respect [00:24:00] than somebody who is just.

Super cocky or arrogant or, bullheaded. Then on the side of the mentee, once again, being very humble and recognizing I don't have all the answers, maybe I should be willing to try this way that I don't think it's gonna work. but this person that has more experience than me, or has a different perspective than me is, sharing this and, Just not being defensive.

I think as a mentee being defensive is one of the quickest ways to really just shut down advice and shut down opportunities for growth. And at the root of defensiveness, I really believe it's pride. It's feeling like I need to make this person understand. Why, what I did, was valuable or why I'm valuable or why my way is right.

and you know why this mistake or whatever it is, wasn't my fault. I think pride is one of the quickest way to really just completely hamstring a mentor, mentee relationship.

Andrew: [00:25:08] Yeah. That's when y'all were both talking about it. That's what I was thinking about was how ego could so easily get in the way of even starting that relationship. And how I've run into that problem myself, where I've just, my ego gets in the way of me taking advantage of really good opportunities, because you get caught in that moment.

You're like, Oh, I know what I'm doing, or I know how to do this, or I am smart enough. I can figure this out on my own and that kind of stuff. And you shut down someone looking to help you. And. maybe you get that one in a hundred chance for someone's Hey, let me show you what I do and how I do it.

And let me help you grow. And you're like, no, I don't need no help. and I'm quoting me directly there.

Daniel : [00:25:43] Well, and I think going back to what we talked about with atomic habits and your mindset on, needles, and just being able to hijack that. Physiological fear response. I think you can do some of that same thing with ego and that's, I am not a particularly humble person as a whole.

I wouldn't necessarily describe myself as a humble person. I think I'm too competitive and obsessed with achievement and winning to necessarily describe myself as that. But there are probably people that. Maybe surprised to hear that. And I think it comes down to, again, just hijacking my ego and my desire to be the best and be seen as the best.

And so if somebody gives me feedback and I'm like, what the heck? Like I'm so much better at this than you are, whatever it is. instead of just taking the mindset of, okay, well, you know, obviously I'm not perfect. And so whatever there isn't that feedback, maybe 99% of what you said, I just can't do anything with.

But if I can do something with the 1%, I can get 1% better, I can improve by 1%. I'll choose to focus on that. Well, effective feedback, or even if a hundred percent of it was bogus. And I don't agree with it. I can still step back and say, obviously that person felt the [00:27:00] need to give me that feedback.

For some reason, there's something off with that perception. I still have room to grow, at least in the eyes of this person. Let me try to figure out why that is and what's happening there. So doesn't matter. What it is, doesn't matter how much I agree or disagree with that feedback just by hijacking my sense of ego.

I typically can come away with something.

Andrew: [00:27:25] even if you can fake humble, and as long as you're willing to give it a shot, even if you don't agree with it, you might get somewhere.

Daniel : [00:27:31] And, you know, you fake it until you make it right. And a lot of times the things that you fake, you really become more of that way. So high school Daniel is legitimately more or sorry, legitimately less humble than Daniel now. Maybe not as much as it might appear on the surface, but there is some realness to

Andrew: [00:27:52] there's many quotes on it, but something along the lines of the, I think it was Rothfuss that sticks in my head. The name of the wind. But, the mask you wear is what you become or something like that.

Daniel : [00:28:03] No, I think, I think that's Jim carry the mask.

Andrew: [00:28:06] there's that one too.

it's a well-worn trope, but it's very true.

So are there any skills or habits or anything you've developed Beth that you're like, this is what's really cool that I get to mentor kids on, or it has nothing to do with mentorship. Is there anything that you've picked up that you think was really worthwhile after college?

Beth: [00:28:25] something I picked up in mentoring. one of the things that my mentor specifically, they like taught me, actually, I looked through a letter, he S he had sent me a while back and, thought of this. He taught me how to ask questions. and so once a week for a semester, so maybe. Eight weeks, nine weeks.

I would go to his office, those with a couple of other people and he would mentor us on how to ask better questions. And he'd always say, people don't really need better answers. They need someone ask them a better question. so that's definitely something that I'm interested in. And I think it's really powerful to ask good questions.


Andrew: [00:29:01] you guys that

Beth: [00:29:02] he has a whole process. Like he would have us write the first question that would come to our mind of something. And then he would have us re rewrite it, rework it five different times. And he would say, before you ask someone a question to get to the best version of it, you have to rework it at least five times.

Andrew: [00:29:20] Interesting. And you know, that sounds tedious. I'm sure to anybody listening, but I bet. And this is a guest because it's the first I've heard you talk about this, but the first. Month or two, you were doing this. I'm sure that was, it slowed your conversations if you were being conscientious about it,


I bet down the road, it, became something that you would think of a question and almost immediately you probably were coming up with a better question for it and it became more natural, right?

Beth: [00:29:44] Oh, yeah. And like, actually you're kind of asking you develop questions that are characteristic of you. And so maybe in different relationships, you have your core questions that you love to ask people. so I think over [00:30:00] time you just become, it's like working a muscle

Andrew: [00:30:03] Yeah, you grease that groove and it becomes like a thing for you how long did it take the art line? guessing at like when did you start becoming more comfortable with this, especially being a private person, but it's hard to ask questions in general for you.

Beth: [00:30:14] asking questions takes the focus off of me. So I actually would prefer to be the one asking questions. that's something he's Really gifted at. And so I would say the whole time that I was being mentored by him, even before it was official, that is something I was learning from him.

And I wouldn't say I'm a pro at asking questions, but it is something I love to do now. So I'm just a lot more conscientious of when I do ask a question, I'm going to make it matter. And then just also, when I'm talking to people, I want to ask more questions. Then I tell them things, I want to hear more from them than

Andrew: [00:30:50] Dang. That was a way better answer than I was anticipating. Like I wasn't anticipating really one way or another, but like you, you want to do a podcast? I hear they're easy to start. We can ditch Daniel.

Beth: [00:30:59] Okay.

Daniel : [00:30:59] It's a, so going back over to the questions thing though, that sparked a question for me. So how much have you looked into, and I know you studied psychology in college. how much have you looked into just the power of curiosity?

Beth: [00:31:16] I am inspired by wonder and curiosity, like one of the, actually the going back to atomic habits.

One of the things I wrote as a goal for myself is that I want to always be a learner. I just always want to be interested in something that other people can teach me. And so whenever I meet anyone, whether it's the kids at my program or, people at work, or just, run into someone at the grocery store, I always want to think this person can teach me something.

What can I learn from this person? and then just being like, Curious about the world. that is something I want to grow even more in. I think I'm curious enough to read books, but actually getting outside and exploring and real life as something that I want to grow in more. Maybe that's the introvert problem in me.

Um, but yeah, I think, curiosity is something that. Is it just fuels like a love for life, like a zeal for life. I think it's very healing for people to get out of their own head out of their own perspective out of their literal own house and, be more interested in what they can learn than what they already know.

Daniel : [00:32:25] How do you feel about the relationship between triase city and fear?

Beth: [00:32:29] I think that a lot of fear, is just more about being afraid of what could happen. And so once you actually go through something, you seen the other side of it. And so I don't know if that's what you're getting at, but, I think that the curiosity, the unknown, fuels fear.

Daniel : [00:32:48] Well, I guess, so I'm just kinda thinking about a couple of different things that came up in my life recently with curiosity. So I was curious what your thoughts were on it, but yeah.

Beth: [00:32:59] I [00:33:00] love that word.

Daniel : [00:33:00] So derail there, but before all the COVID thing, I was supposed to , Be a part of this study that UT Dallas does where they like do MRIs and they do, like different training modules and things like that. And they do MRIs after the fact.

And just try to see how your brain changes super excited about it. I'm still on their list and hopefully we'll get to do it, but in the meantime, they, would send out different just articles and things like that. about. Brain studies. And so one of their themes they talked about is just how curiosity trumps fear and curiosity is a good way to actually, deal with anxiety.

Because if you are curious about, a dark, scary cave, then you probably aren't afraid of it because you're wondering what's in there and you have an interest in it. You want to know about it. And it's a totally different response than, Oh my gosh, what's in there. Is it going to kill me? It's at that point, you don't want to know what's in there.

So it's a different response is the different side of the same coin. And they're actually. Some good exercises you can use if you have anxiety and you're having a physical response, like if your side is hurting intense and you're anxious as opposed to focusing on, Oh my gosh, like my side is hurting.

This is really bad thinking about, Oh, why does this side hurt? But my other side doesn't hurt. Hello? Oh, it only, impacted ask me whenever, this particular thing happens. What happens if I push some presser here? And so just thinking, I'm going to explore this pain that I'm feeling that can shift that feeling of anxiety.

Curiosity is an important thing to diffuse fear. It's also a really important thing to diffuse inner personal, conflicts and some, some issues where you may not be believing the best in somebody else. That's something that we kind of work through in the office. These corrosive interpersonal dynamics and gossip and all this sort of stuff is, if you are curious about.

I wonder why that person said that thing, or I wonder why they responded and then that way, instead of assuming, Oh, they said that because they hate me and they want me to fail. it's choosing to be curious about it and that forces you to give more benefit of the doubt and seek out understanding as opposed to assuming you already know what the answer is.

Andrew: [00:35:28] That's super cool. Cause like you're essentially taking the labeling function of anything, a fear of a dark cave or somebody's intentions. And instead of labeling it as, Oh, this is bad, you're just saying Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to let, whatever happens. I'm going to explore and adventure through this.

Topic or this conversation and you're not jumping to conclusions. That's really cool. I've never thought of it that way.

Beth: [00:35:52] Yeah, I definitely relate to both of those things. There has been many a time when something has been wrong with my body and I'm like, Oh my [00:36:00] gosh, this is it. This is the end. But over time I've learned. To slow down my thinking and literally walked through that, but I didn't really realize that was what I was doing until you just explained that.

And when I hear things like that, sometimes I'm like, humans, we're so smart, but we're also so dumb because we can trick ourselves so easily by doing things like that. just by like rewording our own questions to ourselves. And so it's funny.

Andrew: [00:36:25] Yeah, you can consciously knowing you're tricking yourself, trick yourself. It, the needle thing is just like, nah, bro, you got this. And you're like, guess I got it. I told myself that this isn't a problem anymore. Now it's not a problem. And you're like, what? That shouldn't work.

Beth: [00:36:38] Self-talk is so important.

Daniel : [00:36:40] Power

Beth: [00:36:41] poses, power.

Andrew: [00:36:42] Yeah, if you do it, what was that in? I think I read in the psychology, but for the like, yeah, people like go flex in a mirror before an interview, get better jobs than I do better in front of other people.

Beth: [00:36:52] It's real.

Daniel : [00:36:52] You put your, fists on your hips, like you're Superman and smile at yourself and everything's better.

Beth: [00:37:01]

My next mentoring trick. I'll try that with the kids.

Andrew: [00:37:04] teach them the dragon ballsy thing, where they yell a lot.

Beth: [00:37:06] Oh, they already got that one down.

Andrew: [00:37:08] Okay, good. Just making sure that their childhood is mirroring my own. This is why I couldn't mentor children. There'd be, it'd go poorly for everybody

and I would love it. So do you think you're a dying often? that you do? I've never had that moment myself. There's been a few times hanging with Daniel and we've been doing things I'm like, there's a good chance I'm going to die.

But there was no curiosity. There was just like, all right, cool. We got ourselves into this. We've we now have to survive because that's it's that are dying.

Beth: [00:37:36] that was just a really funny question to me. do you think you're dying often? I mean, not anymore, but I have had. A mystery illness for the last five years, just popped up out of nowhere. I started having a lot of chest pain and so the first time that I ever saw a doctor for this, we thought I was having a heart attack and I was 22.

And so that was intense and scary. And, it just kept going on and I had more and more symptoms. And by this point I've had like over. Probably over 70 different symptoms and have seen over like 13 different doctors and

Andrew: [00:38:09] We have like 70 symptoms or like 70 chest pains.

Beth: [00:38:13] 70 symptoms, different symptoms, like crazy unrelated, like every symptom in the book kind of things.

Went through some cancer scares with it. And I'm like, thought I had ms for a while thought I had Lyme disease. Um, just kinda like all of it. but yeah, so still to this day, don't really know what exactly is wrong with me. I've been told I'm a candidate for a couple of different things, but, that's just been something I've been learning how to manage, over the last few years is.

How to live in pain and constantly be aware that we are not immortal. Um, yeah, that's a really hard yeah. Thing, but whenever you're in your, like young 20 year old age group, to have to start wrestling with.

Andrew: [00:38:59] is there like a [00:39:00] pattern? I have so many questions that, probably would go too far, but is there like a pattern tutor need like a specific one? You're like, Oh, this is what happens the most or the worst.

Beth: [00:39:08] Most like most often now it's just pain, pain and like fatigue. every now and then I get, what's what I. They call a flare up. And so a whole rush of different symptoms will start up again, but, and really lucky actually to have been able to manage, most of my pain and symptoms with just lifestyle.

So I haven't had to be on medicine for the last three years. and so I just am super proactive about managing stress and, staying physically active. The voice is important to me and eating the right things. Which I did just have canes for dinner. So I know it doesn't really seem like it, but I do care

Daniel : [00:39:47] about Jamaican bird.

It's a little better.

Andrew: [00:39:49] They have naked birds at canes.

Beth: [00:39:51] Yeah. Oh yeah.

Naked bird. Oh wait, does you just have to request it? It's not on the menu.

Andrew: [00:39:57] that. I'm pretty sure.

Beth: [00:39:59] I'm not just saying, cause I'm gluten free, but I really do think naked bird is better than the breaded chicken at Kings. Okay.

Daniel : [00:40:06] Have the breaded chicken.

Beth: [00:40:07] Yeah. In five years. Well, I haven't had it and probably in five years, like look at it and I just know mine is better.

Andrew: [00:40:15] To the future sponsorship of canes that is going to come into this podcast one of these days, we do not endorse what she is saying. forgive us and don't let this hurt our chances.

I'll give it a shot. if I go to Keynes and remember to order it and not just get excited about the carb load I'm about to have.

So how long did it take you to figure out how to like mentally prepare for this? What do you call it? Do you have like a name for your thing

Beth: [00:40:42] I can name my illness. I, haven't not named it that maybe I should do that. Cause I think that could be a. Easier thing to explain to people maybe,

Andrew: [00:40:52] Yeah, you gotta personify it,

Daniel : [00:40:54] you should name it, write a Wikipedia page for it. Just tell people to Google it so you don't have to explain it.

Beth: [00:41:00] Yeah. That would actually make my life a lot easier.

I could link it to all my doctors be like, don't worry. This is totally professional. I have all the research right here.

Andrew: [00:41:11] Also talk about no offense to any doctors, but like, they're not just seeing you generally, when you're talking to them, they make mistakes and sometimes they don't pay attention to what you're saying, or sometimes they do their thing and that'd be really handy. I bet if you like, had a nice long, easily readable, like here's all the things and you don't even have to ask me questions.

You can read it at your leisure. And then there's none of the weird social interactions where like, you're embarrassed that your doctor's good looking or I don't know,

Beth: [00:41:35] What is happening when you go to the doctor

Andrew: [00:41:38] I don't know. I only see it.

I try and only see attractive doctors to, you know, up my social awareness. I'm not afraid of good looking people.

a thing that I didn't just make up on the spot.

No, I don't know. There's. That's not something I've actually, for anybody that's confused. that's not a thing, but I do know some people get nervous around doctors and part of it's the social, they're [00:42:00] socially awkward in general and they doubled down whenever there's a doctor or heck you could have an attractive doctor and just be like, you know what?

I don't want to talk about this illness. That's really gross because you're good looking and let's talk about my cold and you just move on. And I don't know. I'm sure that happens.

Daniel : [00:42:15] I assumed it was more a fear of hearing bad news

and. Being in a place where, people die and things like that.

Beth: [00:42:24] Yeah. and that's something I have learned with chronic illness is like doctors don't always make time for you. They are busy. And so sometimes you literally, I have had to fight. To keep a doctor in the room and say no, I need you to listen to me.

Something's going on? And this isn't just a cold or something, because especially whenever you're young and dealing with something crazy, I've experienced a lot of doctors who just think. Oh, you're just stressed or it's just the flu it'll pass or something. And so having to advocate for yourself against a doctor who clearly should know what they're doing is pretty intimidating.

Andrew: [00:43:04] Oh, yeah, no one wants to do that

Beth: [00:43:05] No.

Andrew: [00:43:06] unless they have needles, which I'll argue with them all day long.

Daniel : [00:43:08] So the chronic illness, what have been some of the ways, that your life has changed and what have been some of the things that you've learned about yourself or ways that you've been able to grow from just having to handle something like that?

Beth: [00:43:24] yeah, It's gotten a lot better. I can say that at the beginning.

there was like one summer when I don't think I really left my bed for like three months because I was in so much pain and it was really hard for me to think about the things that I wasn't able to go do. the hobbies I had to give up, dreams for my life that didn't seem realistic anymore.

and so grieving was a big part of the beginning of that process, but I think now I'm like, I'm not better, but I'm in a better place myself. And I don't think I would change anything that I've gone through because it's forced me to really quickly. Decide who I want to be and what I actually think is important in life.

I think a lot of people, my age, maybe our, their focus is still definitely like the typical life track things. And, that's great for me. Every moment of my day, I'm thinking I want to end this day proud of what I did today. because I think that life is unexpected and I don't know how much time there is left.

And so I try and think of at least one thing I've done each day that I can think, okay, like that is who I want to be. if this is my last day today, I am proud of who I was

Daniel : [00:44:34] today.

Andrew: [00:44:34] Heck. Yeah, I get that dead by tomorrow mentality.

Beth: [00:44:37] Am I on the right podcast or what?

Daniel : [00:44:39] don't, I don't think they came for their chronic illness. I think that probably started after you watched it that time, right?

Beth: [00:44:44] Oh, I totally have this a lot of my life off of that movie.

Daniel : [00:44:49] Andrew, have you watched it.


Beth: [00:44:52] It is my favorite movie.

Daniel : [00:44:54] It's so good.

Andrew: [00:44:56] So I was going to watch it and then Shalom is like, I've seen that. And I was like, I want to watch it. And he's I've already seen [00:45:00] it. And I was like, I only watch TV with you.

Daniel : [00:45:02] I can respect that as somebody who frequently does the same thing to Hillary, but there are some movies like Lord of the rings, where no matter how many times you've seen it, if your friend is like, Oh, I haven't seen that yet. And they want to watch it, then you watch it.

And about time is one of those movies.

Andrew: [00:45:19] dude, I watch the. Fellowship and two towers I had last month and it's it just pumped me up. I felt so good for like weeks.

I need to watch return of the King, but yeah, I will watch the movie. I will make that happen this weekend.

Daniel : [00:45:31] Good.

it's one of those movies that, you know, that I don't cry. I can count on my hands, the amount of times that I've cried and it's not like a macho thing, it just.

Andrew: [00:45:41] Yeah. It's trauma from being macho things in childhood.

Beth: [00:45:45] It's deep repressed feelings, I guess,

Daniel : [00:45:49] but that's one of those movies that it almost made me cry.

And so I know like normal people I'm sure it just like bothers me.

Beth: [00:45:58] No, he will be.

Andrew: [00:45:58] No I'm with him on this. I've tried to explain that to multiple people where I'm like, look, I teared up. if it brought me to that emotional point, that's as good as me crying. this is as good as it gets. It is. My body just doesn't allow me to cry anymore because I spent too many years with repressed emotions.

It just does it doesn't happen.

so this is a little hackneyed as a podcast or at least a podcast I listened to you. But have you checked out, Wim Hoff, the Iceman on your chronic illness phone?

Beth: [00:46:25] no, I have no idea.

Andrew: [00:46:29] I, I'm not even gonna try and explain because I am. Not of that caliber of a life hacker, but he has a really good book and it's pretty short. It's called the Iceman. I keep adding an E in there. It's called the ice man. His name is Wim Hoff. There's also Gwenyth Paltrow, who I'm also probably butchering the name there.

She has a special Netflix now yeah, goop, I haven't watched any of the other episodes because none of the other episodes really seemed up my alley, but there is the second episode I think, is the Wim Hoff episode. And it was really good. So that'll be like a good little introduction to it. But check them out and look at his website or read the book or something.

And I don't know, it might help. I'm not a doctor. I'm not even close I'm over here falling apart with like my wrist barely working and my other leg not really working. So like, I'm probably not the best person on advice here, but

Beth: [00:47:21] But glad you started a podcast

Andrew: [00:47:23] yeah, just so I can air my grievances on bodily pain.

Daniel : [00:47:27] I bet. So you said that you worked for a college ministry called the Wesley. I happened to have insider information and know that your entire college experience was a little bit different than your typical, graduate high school, go off to school four years start working, all that sort of stuff that, certainly not everybody goes through that, but.

I would say a lot of the people, at least in our lives do so could you just talk us through like what your college experience was like and, maybe some advice that you would give to somebody starting out, going to [00:48:00] school?

Beth: [00:48:00] Yeah. so my first year of college, I started out being kind of disappointed, , because I stayed in Amarillo and I went to Amarillo college

Daniel : [00:48:09] AC.

Beth: [00:48:10] I'm now really glad I did that because during that year, me and my sister, I think became super close because I would pick her up, from school. I would take her to school. I did all the grocery shopping for my family, so I just, during that time was just helping my parents a lot and it was fun, but yeah.

So then I tried to become an Aggie. And that just did not go well. I tried to follow Daniel and live that life and

Daniel : [00:48:37] you and Christie did it and I just couldn't be more disciplined.

Beth: [00:48:40] I could always stay there for a semester and I was just like, get me outta here.


Andrew: [00:48:45] I'm so proud of you, both you and Christie.

Daniel : [00:48:47] Christie's my youngest.

Beth: [00:48:48] so I couldn't do that. I went back to Amarillo. I'm trying to go to college. ended up at WT and Canyon was studying psychology and. I don't know why, but I just, never in my life have really had a specific career in mind that I was like, Oh, that is what I want to do with my life.

And even after a couple years of going to college, I still felt really aimless. And so I just felt like. This is a waste of time because I don't know where I'm going. I'm spending all this money and I still don't know what I'm doing. And so I took some time off of college. I just worked. And, I actually started working at the Wesley helping college kids before I had even finished college.

And it was during that time that helping others, people figure out what they were passionate about and make career choices is how I figured out what I was passionate about. And it made me want to go back to school and finish my degree. And so I did, and ended up. In mentoring and coaching and helping people make choices that lead them down the path that, they want to be on.

And so, my experience with college is obviously not typical. I was all over the place. I didn't have a specific direction. but the thing that I could say advice for anybody who's feeling that is. for me, I think it was just more important. And I think I still, to this day, I think it's more important to decide who you are.

You want to be versus what you want to do, because what you want to do is going to change a thousand times. And there's going to be obstacles where. Maybe you get your dream job and then, something pops up and you don't get to do that anymore. if you were just set on that one thing, you're going to be aimless whenever it's taken away.

But if you are more focused on this is who I want to be, no matter what I'm doing, that is a constant, you get to decide that and nothing can take that away. careers change, but like your character shouldn't you get to decide that,

Daniel : [00:50:39] So do you have in a sentence form, you know, that nailed down of who you want to be?

Beth: [00:50:45] I don't know if I have it in one sentence, but the only thing that has been consistent, two words,

Andrew: [00:50:52] Two words

Beth: [00:50:53] gosh,

who I want to be two words.

Daniel : [00:50:57] Yup.

[00:51:00] Beth: [00:50:59] I, I would say, Oh gosh, this is so hard. I would maybe just say like life changer. that's really what I'm passionate about is I want to spend my whole life making other people's lives better. Cool,

Daniel : [00:51:12] Andrew,

add one word to ruin that

Andrew: [00:51:14] no, I can't do that to your sister. Not on

Beth: [00:51:16] that's okay.

Andrew: [00:51:19] Oh, but No, that's really good. What you're saying, because that ability to say, instead of I am. This career is an identity. we talked a little bit about this on different stuff. And some things just require you to identify that way. But if you can generally say I want to be a hard worker and I want to be honest, and I want to, whatever your principles are, you make a 10 commandment list for yourself.

And one of those commandments could also read me like, Hey, I'm going to follow the other 10 commandments. And then I get the, nine to myself. So whatever it is, but if you have those kinds of things that you. Say this is, these are the lines I won't cross. And these are the things I'll say yes to and who I want to be as a person, like in terms of traits and abilities and whatnot, that gives you a lot better framework to work on when new things come up, if a new problem arises or, something that isn't.

Specific to what you plan for. It gives you that flexibility to have a playbook to react with, instead of just being like, I want it to be an engineer or I wanted to be a doctor and now I'm not. And whatever, and that goes back to your college thing. If you had this plan, like, Hey, I want to go and get a four year degree and then you drop out a semester and cause you're like, this isn't working for me.

I need some time off because I don't know what I'm doing. If all you had in your mind was. I'm getting a degree in four years and I'm going to go get a job. You can't do anything with the change of pace without changing our mentality. But if you instead have that learner mentality or a perseverance mentality or something like that, you're able to say, all right, cool.

That didn't work out. I'm going to sit back, check myself and see where it's going. You're able to reset and try again. Instead of just being like, well, I failed at four years straight, so I'm out.

Beth: [00:52:58] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Like you get to decide the characteristics, no matter what you're doing, I'm going to at least be these things, no matter where I'm at,

Andrew: [00:53:06] and it's great because also sometimes people shouldn't be going to college. that's not necessarily a. A path that everyone should take. And a lot of people get stuck saying, I like doing these things over here, but because I expect myself to go get a degree, I'm gonna go get a degree.

And then it just, it screws them up. They don't know how to recover from it because they don't know who they are as a person they're reacting to. What's expected of them.

Beth: [00:53:29] You're putting your whole worth and like resources and time and all that energy towards something that is fleeting. maybe you're going to get that it job you're hoping for, or maybe you're going to get that 4.0 and get into med school. And maybe you don't. And if that doesn't happen, who are you then?

but if you have your identity tied in something that's constant that you get to decide, like nothing's gonna mess that

Daniel : [00:53:53] up.

Yeah. And Andrew is, going back to any of Graham as a three, that's probably an important thing for us [00:54:00] to be mindful of because we definitely can get caught up in, the things that we're achieving, the things that we're doing more so than who we are as individuals.


had to work in any agreement at least once.

Andrew: [00:54:11] Hey, and I was right about the eight. Like I took it and it was like 80%. Okay. Maybe, I don't know what the exact percentages, but it was like three and eight. And I was like, Oh, there wasn't eight in there. It was more three. And you're right. I definitely get hooked into a goal and I'm like, alright, I want to accomplish this thing.

And I'm going to get this thing done. And it helps sometimes, but also whenever it doesn't work out and it's not possible, I was going to work out. It's really hard to. pump the brakes and be okay with it. Sorry

for anybody who I've forced to hang out with me, that's a very small slice of the pie of that situation.

Daniel : [00:54:42] Oh, wait. That's so what is your, because I know, it you've introduced me to any grants. So what is your number? What's your wing? Way, some Enneagram knowledge on us.

Beth: [00:54:52] I am an Enneagram eight wing nine. Which it took me a while to settle on that because I also, I still have a lot of feelings and so I cry a lot and I thought, Oh, I must be a four.

I am way too emotional. but you know, 8.9, the protector, the, I think that it's nicknamed the bear. Technically.

Daniel : [00:55:13] I didn't

Andrew: [00:55:13] that.

Daniel : [00:55:14] Huh? Wait Andrew.

Andrew: [00:55:17] I couldn't figure out what this wing thing was. I didn't look that hard if I'm being honest,

but. Okay. All the show notes are going to be the separate storyline of Andrew, figuring out what his Enneagram is.

It's going to be disappointing for literally everyone involved. I'll look into it. I, all I know was a three was at the very top and then eight was my next biggest thing,

Beth: [00:55:43] Yeah, your wing is basically like UBA either. It's three wing, two or three wing four, and you can be balanced, but it's just which one you lean to.

Andrew: [00:55:53] Wasn't the, for the caring and like subservient, not

subservient, but okay. That's the tier then? It's definitely not the two.

Daniel : [00:56:00] I'm a three week too.

Beth: [00:56:01] I would say you're a three wing for Andrew.

Andrew: [00:56:04] Yeah, I've got two close to us. Sociopathic tendencies to be on that level.

Daniel : [00:56:09] That's why we work Andrew, because I care about, getting all the people. I don't know. Involved in feeling things and all that, even though I can't feel myself,

Andrew: [00:56:19] just as much a we'll figure ourselves out. One of these days. That's the real goal really is. Getting that locked down whole people.

So what about at best, do you have any funny stories that, uh, Daniel and I are either too embarrassed to tell other people about, or we have just forgotten about either of us or mainly Daniel?

Daniel : [00:56:40] Andrew you're in this too. You've known that as long as about as long as you've known me, pretty much.

Beth: [00:56:46] I feel like, I don't know if I'm the right person to ask. And I know I was there for a lot of things, but yeah. Also like the whole time I have like little sisters syndrome, whenever y'all be doing your thing, like system links in the living room or [00:57:00] whatever, it was like, I want to come hang out, but I don't think Daniel wants me to come hang out.

And so it was just kinda like. Me always nervously coming in and seeing if I can hang out and stay. but Daniel, like we talked about this earlier. His personality is like he wants everybody included in everything. And so Dana was always really good at inviting me to things. And one memory I do have is just, I think we were playing cops and robbers.

At 11 o'clock at night. All I remember is I was in the back of someone's van and I think it was your cousin. Andrew, maybe

Andrew: [00:57:33] We played some massive games of cops and robbers and Derek had a minivan, but so did Graham, so it could have been either of them. Was it

Daniel : [00:57:40] Well,

Beth: [00:57:41] I don't know, but it was some dude I didn't even know. And I was just in the back of his van. It was very late at night and I was probably like 13 or 14 and I just thought to myself, like, How did I end up here? am I even supposed to be here? But,

Andrew: [00:57:54] I would guess it was Graham's just for the record, is as much as I love my cousin, I don't think he played many of those physical things we did with us.

Daniel : [00:58:02] I, I, yeah, I don't remember Derek coming in and hanging out with us too much at

Andrew: [00:58:07] No,

he was pretty busy trying to get his music career going and, but Graham. Graham didn't really interact as much with the, like the social lines. but whenever that big stuff went down, like cops and robbers at midnight, there were

people that I didn't know that would be playing.

Daniel : [00:58:22] Oh, you invited everyone. You knew because the bigger the game, the better it was, which is, I guess is how I ended up

Beth: [00:58:28] there. Yeah,

Andrew: [00:58:29] Yeah. I remember literally there was like groups of people, like they would be running from me and I'm like, I am chasing literal strangers. I hope they're playing jerk. That's Jason people cause it's dark and late at night and fast as heck. And these guys are just running from you cause I'm chasing them.

Beth: [00:58:44] They're probably telling the same story, like to their friends right now and being like this one time, I was just trying to walk my dog in this man just came chasing after me.

Daniel : [00:58:54] And we were 16 and like you remember Andrew and I at 16, nobody was mistaking us for men.

Beth: [00:58:59] Fair

Andrew: [00:59:01] Okay, whatever, I'm still the same height I was then.

Daniel : [00:59:03] Yeah. The same height.

Beth: [00:59:05] Surely you bulked up a little bit.

Andrew: [00:59:07] Okay, fine. So you got into a probably Graham's van. And did he catch you? How did that work? Like

Beth: [00:59:14] I I don't even remember. It's all such a blur, but that is most of the memories I have of hanging out with any of you guys in high school is just like ending up in a situation where I'm like, what is going on right now? And how did I end up here? Cause like I'm an introvert. I didn't plan this.

I just tagged along with extroverts and this is what ends up happening.

Andrew: [00:59:35] No, that's pretty fair. A lot of the times I think about it, I still have trouble. Like what were all the rules?

I mean, someone always got hurt,


Daniel : [00:59:44] Oh, yeah, for sure.

Beth: [00:59:45] Yeah. So that, and then like tennis, I think are the two things that stand out to me. I think I was a freshmen maybe when y'all were juniors or seniors on the tennis team, but I know coach Otto was still there and we also all played tennis at the [01:00:00] Amarillo tennis center with Yon and Dean I still remember him doing sun salutations at tennis camp every morning.

Andrew: [01:00:08] I forgot about that God

memories that could have been left, buried. sounds like we need to, uh, step up our, experiences for you. If you don't have anything too wild or embarrassing apart from drag along extrovert trips, sounds like we're going to have to, uh, give your body new reasons to experience fear.

How do you feel about. I don't know, whitewater rafting without life jackets. We'll do that next. I haven't done that.

Beth: [01:00:31] I bent down. I think I can. I think I can float. At least I have drowned once in my life, but it was a loss.

Daniel : [01:00:39] That's true. It's

Beth: [01:00:40] actually the day I got baptized,

Daniel : [01:00:42] I didn't know that.

Beth: [01:00:43] Yeah. I felt like maybe that was a sign

Daniel : [01:00:45] separate event.

Beth: [01:00:46] Yeah, it was the after party. Yeah. So I didn't know if that was like a sign of like rejection or what was going on there, but I feel pretty confident that I'm okay.


Daniel : [01:00:55] it was, uh, you, you didn't leave your old self fully there whenever you're baptized. You're going to get pushed into a pool and then have to be resuscitated.

Beth: [01:01:05] Okay. I was like, we gotta redo it. We

Andrew: [01:01:07] Are you like


Beth: [01:01:08] time.

No, but I was like, I don't know, like five or six and got pushed into the deep end of a pool.

I think it was actually trying to get Daniel's attention and so mean the goal. And I just, I remember reaching my little hand up and I was like, Looking up at the sun, it was like a movie. And then a hand reaches in and my dad had come and pulled me out of the water. He saw me from like across the yard, it was like a pretty big pool party.

So I'm glad he was there. Cause you know, there was a, quite a bit of flailing from the kids around me. I don't think they realized I was drowning.

Andrew: [01:01:42] No, that's, what's so scary about a pools with kids. Cause. That totally that happened. Not that exactly. But I remember this kid was like dunking me because he was mad at me in a pool. Sometime I can't remember is when I was still scared of water too. And I could barely swim and, uh, like straight up almost just drowned because this kid wouldn't let me up.

And I think I ended up, we won't go into that. I, I did something not nice to the kid and he ended up letting go and I was able to swing away and choked out some water.

Beth: [01:02:08] Gotta do what you gotta do,

Daniel : [01:02:09] Yeah, I guess share my, almost drowning scores that's apparently what we're talking about now. So for me, and I was scared of water for awhile and for the record, I'm not a great swimmer. I straight up sink. I know there are people that can float.

I feel like most people can float and I try to do it. Can't do it. I sink like a rock. But as a kid, one time we were out at the Lake, it was like this guy's retreat thing where like fathers bringing their sons. And so it was out there. and I was just hanging out and this inner tube wasn't really paying attention.

And all of a sudden I was like pretty close to the middle of the Lake and the energy we've also had a rope on it. And the rope had gotten caught up in all this seaweed. And so, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't swim and pull the tube out of the seaweeds. So I was just stuck. In the middle of the Lake, too [01:03:00] far away for me to constantly feel like I could swim back to the shore without the inner tube.

And so I'm out there just yelling and screaming as loud as I can hoping that somebody will notice then come out there. But I was far enough that nobody really heard me for a long time. And I just chilled in the middle of this Lake. And does the inner tube, As it was getting dark. And then finally, I guess they realized that I wasn't there.

My dad looked out and saw me and swam out to get me like pulled the tube out of the seaweeds so that we could swim back. But yeah, that was my traumatic water experience.

Andrew: [01:03:41] Oh for saving kids, he get Christy out of a water situation too.

Beth: [01:03:45] To have to ask her, I don't know what the

Daniel : [01:03:46] Christie drown. we'll

find out. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, the iron islands. Is

Andrew: [01:03:55] You have the iron born?

Beth: [01:03:57] iron born?

Andrew: [01:03:57] not right, but yeah. Game of Thrones.

Yeah, the sea people that didn't. I use that as something

Daniel : [01:04:05] But yeah, one last story I'll tell. And then, we can wrap up cause I think it does a good job of just really summarizing the dynamic that Beth and I had. Oh, for sure. So Beth and I are only two years apart in age. And so we've always been fairly close. We were in schools together and like also a fun fact.

We were homeschooled up until I was in the fifth grade. And so, yeah, not only were we homeschooled, but we lived out in the suburb of Amarillo called bushland, which at that time we were the fifth house in the subdivision. So like

Beth: [01:04:43] 10 people.

Daniel : [01:04:44] Yeah. And two of them are kids and they were weird.

Andrew: [01:04:48] Wow.

Daniel : [01:04:48] Well, it's, it's, true.

so all of that to say, essentially Beth and I were best friends. Maybe because we liked each other, but definitely because there were no other options. And so. As kids, I always was like planning out the venture that we were doing. And like, it was always, we're going to go do this thing. We're going to go fight this monster.

and Beth was like, my sidekick was always there for anything that we're doing except for one day. I was like trying to get that to, I dunno, sword fight with a broom or something like that. and she wasn't having it and that's something that is definitely a dynamic for the most part. Beth and I get along pretty well.

She's usually actually pretty up for doing things despite being an introvert, like just in the story of cops and robbers, like she actually showed up and did it. That's true. Most of the time sometimes though that's the size. I'm not having, I don't want to be involved in this thing. I don't want to go along with this game.

Is it matter how well you explain it doesn't matter how much you talk about the benefits and how great it will be not having it. And it's true the first time that happened when we were kids, [01:06:00] it was while we were trying to do this, I don't know, game involving a broom and. Beth got tired of me, like trying to get her to play along with this game.

And she hit me with the broom

and was like, no, I'm done. And so I was upset. And at that time I, being a very manly masculine child, I kept a diary and I wrote in my diary, I would put like the date and the entry. And all I wrote was. Today, Beth lost her warrior spirit,

Andrew: [01:06:29] you were dramatic.

Daniel : [01:06:30] so dramatic. but yeah, so that are really just feels, feel like, just sums up the dynamic that have had that than I've had for pretty much our

Beth: [01:06:39] entire lives. Yeah. I lost my more, your spirit a long time ago is what he's saying.

Andrew: [01:06:44] That's what you could call the sickness, your warrior spirit, and really confused people. baffling. Also, there's nothing wrong with journals, Daniel or diaries. That's a good habit to have.

Daniel : [01:06:58] No, I think journals are very important. We talked about reflection in our most recent episode of our opportunities. I think journaling is a really good way to do that, to encourage that, And it can be just like anything else. It can be social if that's what you're into. That's how I originally asked Hillary out to be my girlfriend and also asked her to marry me both involved journals.

Andrew: [01:07:23] Yeah, that's a good way to get around  

Beth: [01:07:28] That actually makes me feel better about you not ever crying because like journaling is. Like a lot of feelings. So at least you're not like a robot.

Andrew: [01:07:36] There

Beth: [01:07:37] are feelings there.

Andrew: [01:07:38] we have feelings,


Beth: [01:07:40] feel things.

Daniel : [01:07:41] there are plenty of boys that cry.

Beth: [01:07:43] I cry a lot. I just don't know why

Andrew: [01:07:45] onward got me the other day. I guess it's been a couple months,

Beth: [01:07:48] I had my boys watch that yesterday. All the 400 boys.

Andrew: [01:07:53] That's a rough movie for them.

Beth: [01:07:55] movie.

Andrew: [01:07:56] You made all your kids cry, just like that. Just,

Beth: [01:07:58] Yeah. That's how I get them.

Get them crying. And then that's when you come in with some life truth, and then the kid's life changes just like that.

Andrew: [01:08:06] So you could play the long game on them with it and do a Firefly. It, I got myself trying to get a Shalomi we've been not Firefly community knot. Well, mal was on the episode we watched yesterday. whatever don't judge me. I love them both. That's the thing I had to open the love box in my heart and I just picked out the wrong name,

but, uh, there's a few, but like I was only trying to go for one accidentally grabbed the wrong one.

we were watching and we hit, where Troy leaves our bed and it makes me tear up every time. And so I'm on the couch just watching. And she's like, are you crying? And I was like, no, this is as close as it gets though. And she didn't make fun of me and it was messed up. And I just ended up getting myself essentially.

on that note, thank you guys for coming [01:09:00] by. Beth, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to talk to us about all of the things that we covered here. I know it was probably a little bit more than you were expecting, but, uh, we appreciate you coming on and Daniel, thank you for letting us borrow your sister. Thank everyone for listening. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to send them over. We are always happy to chat with anybody who has questions about what we've talked about. Or if we said something that was really dumb, feel free to correct us on it. So thank you. And this was Dead by Tomorrow with Daniel, Andrew and Beth.