Commitment Part 3: Professional Life and Millenials (#4)

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Episode Transcript

Daniel: Hi guys, welcome to the dead by tomorrow podcast. My name is Daniel winter and my cohost is Andrew Monroe. On each episode, we're going to explore topics that are too important to wait until your last day on earth. As we introduce each topic, we encourage you to remember that some tomorrow will be your last. So each new day could be your final chance to really.

Andrew: [00:00:24] Hey guys. Thanks for stopping by this episode, we're going to be talking about commitment in the workplace and how that affects you. Thanks for listening. And we look forward to connecting with you soon.

Daniel: [00:00:38] So I have an entire episode dedicated to commitment in the workplace. And why would we make that the last one of this series? one, because we believe it's important. Obviously, you think about it. We spend at least 40 hours in the workplace for some of us, if we're lucky. So that's going to be one of our biggest opportunities to put anything that we learned about commitment into practice.

Another reason is that jobs equal money. So there's a lot of research out there to study workplace loyalty and commitment. They're going to be a lot of callbacks to episodes one and two within this one. So if you're just diving in with us for the first time, that's totally fine. But consider listening to the first two episodes.

If you really want the full picture of everything that we talked about.

Andrew, when have you felt most committed or engaged in a job?

Andrew: [00:01:32] So for me, that's usually whenever I'm doing something that I don't want to be doing

Daniel: [00:01:38] and when you don't want to be doing

Andrew: [00:01:40] yeah. I think that's when commitment matters most. So I think the times that I had the most commitment to a position was when I was doing something that I didn't enjoy and still was able to follow through with it.

so to answer your question on that, There was a, probably a good year and a half where I went from doing international sales. And, I felt like I was a real adult with a real job and I got laid off and I picked up a new job at planes internet. And while I was there, I got to start out at the very bottom, level as an installer where I was going to people's houses and doing the labor of putting equipment on their house, running cable and making their internet light up.

So it was a really physically demanding job and it really felt more blue collar than I had expected to be, working at it 24. That was whenever I really had to dig down and be like, Hey, I agreed to work for this amount of money. And this is the job I agreed to do. And being committed to going out and doing it.

I had to show up early to work, to put the gear together. I had to leave and go find people's homes. And it was just me. There was a lot of options and opportunities for me to, half-ass the job and not really do everything that I should be doing, but it was also an opportunity for me to really develop that sense of commitment that we're talking about [00:03:00] today.

Daniel: [00:03:01] Yeah, I gotta, I got a backhoe cause I'm still thrown by feeling like when you are most committed, it's when you're doing things you don't want to do. Cause I feel like that's counter intuitive or counterculture. Is that something where maybe it's a position where that's where the most commitment is required of you?

Or could you just unpack that a little bit more?

Andrew: [00:03:26] Sure. So to me, commitment matters most when times get tough, it's easy to go to the movies. when you said you're going to go to the movies, if you say, Hey, I'm going to go see, the new Lord of the rings, which we can all hope would.

Someday happened for us now, if I was going to clean a toilet and I told someone, I cleaned this toilet, that's something I'm probably not going to do out of the joy in cleaning toilets. So to me, when commitment really shows itself is when. It's almost a sacrifice for yourself whenever you're choosing, Hey, I'm going to do this thing, even though it's something that either, okay.

I didn't want to pursue, or it's something I know I need to pursue, or I need to do, but you don't want to necessarily, or it's going to be hard or difficult or challenging. It's easy to be committed to easy things. It's. Easy to do whatever you want when you want you that's not commitment. So I really think that commitment matters most when you're either planning something challenging or someone else has expectations for you and meeting those expectations, even when you might not rather meet them, it's nicer to sit on the couch and watch some TV then going to the gym.

It's more fun to scroll through Facebook than. crunching down on that data that your boss gave you and working on it. That's where commitment matters.

Daniel: [00:04:57] Okay. I follow you now. So you're saying that you really felt the most commitment when it was tough to do, like you had to exercise more commitment, so you really felt it.

Okay. I like that. that's definitely a different take from my original question. So let me hit you with a follow up. Do you think it's bad to be in a job where commitment actually feels easy?

Andrew: [00:05:19] No, I don't think that's a bad thing at all. If you find a position that it's easy for you to do everything and do your best in that position, that's awesome.

That is honestly the dream that's where we all want to be is in an environment where every day, we're going in doing exactly what we want and that's moving the dial

Daniel: [00:05:39] forward.

Andrew: [00:05:40] But even that sort, we're creating this podcast and that's pretty fun and it's great, but I know it still takes commitment from us to set aside at that time.

So I think it's still be a problem down the road for somebody, even if he found that perfect position where it's easy. And I really hope that everybody finds that. And in this day and age, [00:06:00] it's getting closer and closer to being the reality, but that's where we're at. So I know that might not be what you wanted to hear as well on there.

But what about you? Do you have anything less anecdotal about commitment in the workplace than my stories?


Daniel: [00:06:19] whenever I think about what you're talking about, response to commitment, being hard, and even this follow-up question of should commit that the easier is it a bad thing for it to be easy?

I start to think about the relationship between commitment and I'm going to throw in another word of engagement. And so that's a big word right now within organization is how engaged are your employees? How much do they believe in the mission of the company? How much do they believe in their supervisors?

Are they willing to? Sacrifice their own time or interest potentially for the good of the company, because they feel like they're a part of it. And I think commitment, is easy whenever you feel engaged. So I know for me, I've worked at the same company for the past seven years. And my levels of engagement have really varied throughout that time, which has also had a direct impact on you.

This kind of going back to what you said at the beginning of this feeling of commitment, where there are times where I really feel, Oh man, I am staying so committed to this and I'm working hard and I want to go and I want to do something else, but I said I would do it. And I really exercising that commitment.

And those are probably times where my engagement level was a little bit lower. I didn't really fully buy into what I was doing or I didn't see as much of the benefit. but then there are times where I felt super engaged. I really felt okay, what we're working on is really beneficial to people.

Whether people that we're serving as an organization or people within the organization, I'm excited about the vision and the mission here. The amount of commitment, it takes to work hard or to stay late or to go through tough situations. It's not necessarily different in those high engagement moments, but it is certainly.

Easier. And so that's the thing that I'm interested in. What I'm thinking about. The workplace commitment is trying to figure out, okay. Commitment is going to be tough regardless. It's going to take effort, but I think it gets easier when people are engaged.

Andrew: [00:08:38] let me interrupt you really quick on that.

So if you're talking about engagement, are you talking about. A specific type of, love for the company or look for the job, or is that more of a social engagement at the workplace? Or am I misunderstanding?

Daniel: [00:08:56] It can be any of those things. And I think [00:09:00] one of the biggest ones is social. So if you feel connected to the people that you're working side by side with, and.

Even more importantly, if you feel connected to your service provisor and feel like your supervisor is connected and committed to you, that's going to be a huge factor in engagement, but the overall values or mission of the company play into it as well. It's essentially saying, okay, I. I'm excited about what is happening here or what is going on here?

I'm looking forward to doing the work that is me. And it doesn't mean that I'm looking forward because it's easy, but yeah, it's because I see it as meaningful. Okay. That's something that's become even more plentiful with our unicorn, millennial generation. That's, there's a statistic out there that I looked up for this episode.

Talking about how 55% of millennials right now in the workplace are not engaged. So they are probably living in that world of what you talked about at the beginning of planes, where you're doing this blue-collar work that you do necessarily like, but you made a commitment and you really wanted to stick with it.

And you felt the weight of that commitment. I think that's where a lot of people are right now is. Not being engaged to having to really exercise those commitment muscles, to stick with something.

Andrew: [00:10:32] It's funny. They say that because, I love the millennial stuff and I like looking into it. I don't know if you remember this, but probably a year ago is when we got the idea for this podcast and the writing we've been doing and everything like that. And I know one of the big. Instigators of it.

For me was employees. We had a number of millennial employees that we had hired on and I was on my like fifth person that I was training up to do marketing, SEO, that kind of stuff. So we kept hiring these recent grads from school. I'd try and teach my thing. And as soon as they. Had just the tiniest grasp on it.

which took over, they really didn't want to listen. They didn't, they weren't engaged with the company they bounced. They would be like, all right, cool. I know how to, I know how to do email marketing. I'm outta here and they'd leave and they'd go find a job that specifically gave them, Hey, run our Facebook or something.

So I don't remember if you remember having those problems, but I know that was a big thing for both of us at the time. Was these millennials. Recent grads that we had hired and trying to figure out how to talk to them, to figure out what was going on. And it's not that we aren't millennials, I'm 28.

You just turned 28, a couple of weeks ago of the recording here. So we're not that far right? 29 and year 29, we just had our birthdays. Okay. So we're 29 still. We're still in that sweet spot. we're still millennials. We still qualify and. Everything works that way and I'm just [00:12:00] bad at math, So do you remember that?

Daniel: [00:12:02] Yeah, for sure. And to clarify, when we're talking about millennials, that's anyone who at this moment is age 23 through 38. That's that millennial generation. We're pretty soon in a place where we're actually going to start, Start employing generation. What is it?

Generation Z. Is that our next one? Yeah,

Andrew: [00:12:22] that's gotta be scary, man.

Daniel: [00:12:24] I don't know if it's just us getting old,

Andrew: [00:12:25] but they're not on the same wavelength as we are. It seems.

Daniel: [00:12:31] Yeah. Yes. I think the whole millennial thing is interesting. Both from being an employee. In that state. And then over time moving into being a supervisor, it definitely changes your perspective on the whole generation and all of what the statistics out there are, what the biases out there, all that fun stuff.

But at the end of the day, I think that's when I really started to get interested in engagement was when I was directly managing a millennial group when I needed to interview and potentially hire. That's where I started to try to think about, okay, why is it that there is this mindset that okay, you're going to have one or two years, and then this person has gone and they're moving onto something else.

All right. Andrew is quiz time.

Andrew: [00:13:31] All right. Did not do well in school, but let's do this anyways.

Daniel: [00:13:34] Yeah, I can attest, unfortunately. That's all right. This one, you're probably not going to do any better at, to be 100% honest. So this is a quiz to test how likely it is that you would be able to keep your brand new.

Fresh out of the gate, millennial employee.

Andrew: [00:13:54] Oh, good. I've already failed that repeatedly. let's roll.

Daniel: [00:13:58] Okay. So with your, where your new millennial employee, what's a good millennial employee name?

Andrew: [00:14:05] let's go with Jake. we both have Jake's in our lives.

Daniel: [00:14:10] Yeah, that's true. Okay. Jake say Andrew after hiring Jake.

Did you ever meet with him on a regular basis? Say a weekly basis as his manager?

Andrew: [00:14:23] No, I think that would have been a good idea if I would have had a Jake, but no, I usually didn't have any direct report meetings on a regularly scheduled basis.

Daniel: [00:14:35] Your answer has been recorded. What Jake, describe your business as ethical.

Andrew: [00:14:41] Yes, I hope.

Daniel: [00:14:42] You sounded pretty confident in that

Andrew: [00:14:45] I'm feeling like they would go with it. But I, I can't say for a hundred percent, but yeah, I think so.

Daniel: [00:14:51] Okay. For Jay, is there any obvious opportunity for him to continue building his skills?

[00:15:00] Andrew: [00:14:59] No. at least when I was at Plains, we would do a. Like once a month kind of video session or, a lunch and learn, but we didn't have any specific skill development tracks.

Daniel: [00:15:12] Okay. And does Jake feel like the trust of employees when you're within your organization as high as their high trust?

Andrew: [00:15:22] That's a tough one. I think a lot of my direct reports trusted me, but I don't think overall the company had a high trust.

Daniel: [00:15:31] Okay. And last, most important question. What is the most compelling reason that Jake had to stay within your organization?

Andrew: [00:15:41] Probably the paycheck. And so saying all these answers, I feel like I might've failed.

Daniel: [00:15:46] Yeah. I hate to break it to you, but most likely you're not going to keep with any of your organization. So if we go back and look at some of the statistics from wall street journal from Gallup polls, going through those different questions.

44% of millennials say that they are more likely to be engaged when their manager holds regular meetings with them. But only 21% of millennials actually met with their manager on a weekly basis. So if you didn't meet with Jake, that's not good news for you. Okay. And our next one. So if only 48% of respondents in a survey of 10, a thousand people believe that their corporation is ethical, that's actually decline.

And that is another Stripe. technically you said that you think Jake would be believe that a corporation is ethical, but. I don’t know, you didn't sound too confident there in confidence is key.

Andrew: [00:16:44] Fair enough.

Daniel: [00:16:46] And then when, believe that their company is a high trust culture, they are 22 times more likely to want to work there for a long time.

Just to give a comparison to other generations. Cause I know we're talking about the whole millennial generation, a lot, gen Xers are 16 times more likely to stay in that situation. And baby boomers are 13 times more likely to stay. So it's honestly. That high trust culture is a huge deal.

Andrew: [00:17:10] Why do you think that is as one millennial to another, where did we jump on that boat?

Where trust is what mattered to us more than a lot of these other factors, but I don't know. I know that trust is a big thing for me and I've got a whole honesty stick that I beat people over the head with on a regular basis, but. When it comes to it. I don't know where the stuff came. I don't know why culturally or is even cultural.

I'm not sure why I care about people being honest with me in the word, like how that works. I really should just be going in and saying, Hey, you said I do this job. If I do that job, you pay me. Anything else is greatly like that. would make sense if that was my mindset, but obviously it's not, we're all jumping ship and going [00:18:00] places when it started on thing or sticking with a company because they were following through with that kind of stuff.

Daniel: [00:18:04] Yeah. I think it's the expectation for that has grown a little bit and some of that could have been just. Seeing companies like Enron while we were growing up, seeing the, just the corruption that was in place and just taking that mindset of, we shouldn't have to put up with something like that. if that's what the organization is about, we don't want to be aligned to it.

And I think there's a little bit more of identity that can be placed within the job. And so if you work for. Scummy corporation that takes advantage of people, then that reflects on you as a person being scummy person that takes advantage of people. And that's not fair that we want. And so it's a combination of there's this expectation in place that maybe hasn't always been there of organizations, corporations, there is an identity that gets tied up in work.

And then the last thing is just the whole. Stigma of moving organizations. Isn't really there as much as it used to be. It's a little bit easier. I think that has been in the past. And so it's just in this mindset of, I shouldn't have to put up with it, so I'm not going to.

Andrew: [00:19:20] I like what you said there about the identity. That was actually something that was floating through my head there for a second. I think that as a generation, a lot of it, our identity now is tied up with what we do for a career, which I'm not saying it wasn't in generations beforehand, but. There was a lot more, Hey, I identify as a father and whatever my hobby may be doing carpentry or whatever against people had their identities more wrapped around.

I do exit my job. I'm a father and I make tables on the weekend. Now we have probably less meaningful hobbies because there's. There's not as much need for woodworking. Whenever we could go play the new call of duty war zone. And on top of that, it's no longer just a, Hey, I'm a senior manager at a healthcare people care about who you're working for, where you're working for.

So no longer is I do X part of your identity. It's who you do X for. And what they do and all of the context around it now, it's not just okay to be an accountant. You have to be an accountant for the right people. And it's perspective from other people

Daniel: [00:20:32] I think. And it's so much more visible than it used to be because it's, yeah.

Andrew: [00:20:37] Then it has grown to be more complex than what it used to be. It used to be a lot simpler, but now we're used to telling much larger stories about ourselves to people and where we fit in. And it matters to us more about the whole story versus. the two dimensional, whatever you want to call it.

Daniel: [00:20:55] Yeah. I agree. All right. Going back to a quiz. I know you tried to [00:21:00] get away from it

Andrew: [00:21:00] because I just don't think about how bad I'm doing continue.

Daniel: [00:21:04] All right. So the question about is there opportunity to grow skills? That's another huge thing that. Just in how fast our world changes today. It's more important than ever.

So that's another statistic that comes from the Bureau of labor statistics. And this one, interestingly enough, doesn't have a hard number tied to it, but there's this overall mindset and idea that younger workers feel the need to move jobs more frequently because they need to continue building essential skills because today's careers are going to be reinvented every year.

Three four years. And so if you don't move or if you don't have opportunity to grow where you're at, then you're going to essentially get phased out. You're going to be town vulnerable, as far as your employability. That stuff's kind scary.

Andrew: [00:21:56] I know we've talked about that book deep work and how it talks about loss of careers for a lot of people, because if you aren't a superstar or if you're not.

Able to pivot really fast and develop new skill sets. You're pretty much screwed. So I could see that out. I don't know if I've ever thought of that. Consciously. If I was moving jobs, it's always been, Hey, if I move after two years or something, I can probably get a 20% raise on my salary. Instead of sticking with this place, that's going to make three to 5%.

Daniel: [00:22:26] Just remind me what is, what does deep work have to do with that?

Andrew: [00:22:29] Huh. So deep work was talking about. One eight is the ability to do work. And so let's say you're a programmer being really good at programming and knowing how to actually do the work. So part of deep work though is knowing how to go into that flow state.

But the other part was actually learning how to develop skills and pivot to find new skills that you can do more deep work in, because if you could only. Have this one skill set and maybe really good at it, but that skillset gets removed. You need to be able to learn a new skill set and get just as good at it in a short period of time.

And I'm doing a terrible disservice to that book because they did it a lot better job, a lot more interesting, that's what we're here for.

Daniel: [00:23:15] If you're intrigued at all, read the book, get a better synopsis. Could provide, is that what you're saying? Yes.

Andrew: [00:23:22] Yes, please. Please. Don't hold what I just said about that book against the book

Daniel: [00:23:32] I'll ask question is, was, is there a compelling reason to stay or what is the most compelling reason to stay in please? A little bit into this unicorn mindset of, I have to find something where I'm special and I'm getting economic desk. And yes, there is some of that. I think it gets blown out of proportion, but there is something too, where there's smoke, there's fire and.

That's something that Gallop found is that a lot of [00:24:00] millennials don't necessarily want to switch jobs, but their companies are not giving them compelling reasons to stay. So if they see a better opportunity, they've got every incentive to take it. And. It may come across as just wanting more and more that in reality, they just want to find a job that feels worthwhile and there, and they're going to keep looking until they find it.

Andrew: [00:24:21] that makes sense. I'm sure most people listening to this is yeah, that's not news to me. Why are you telling me about that? But that's how we might think, but that's not how most of the managers we've worked for the bosses or people, five, 10 years older than us think so.

It's weird.

Daniel: [00:24:36] Knowing some of those things is what is important as a manager of millennial generation. And I fully expect that it's going to be the same with gen Z. This is where we're moving towards is, wanting to be in careers that we feel like are compelling, where we feel like we're growing, where we feel like.

It's something that's ethical and there is that high trust. And so to just write it off and grumble about it, that's not going to do any good.


Andrew: [00:25:13] Since I obviously failed that test, what do you think we could do better?

Daniel: [00:25:18] Let's just like any time we fail a test. One of the best things to do is go out and find a tutor.

Andrew: [00:25:26] do you have one in mind then?

Daniel: [00:25:28] I do. Yeah. So my go to tutor of toys for anything related to engagement and also the millennial generation is Simon Sinek.

He is so inspirational. If you haven't seen any of his Ted talks or read his books, definitely do that now. Just to stop the podcast right now. go watch them. You'll probably never come back to us because he's so much more interesting than we are. we'll put it in the show notes though, because at the end of the day, we just want to help you out.

Andrew: [00:26:00] So it's funny you bring that up. I actually, I love Simon Sineck too. He, I haven't read his books or anything, but I've watched a few of his YouTube videos and the guy is just, he's a smart guy. He's fun to listen to. He's really charismatic, And I don't know if that's because of the information he's putting across, but I love it.

I used to make the whole office watch one of his videos. Actually. It was the millennial generation. It was an argument. there's nothing wrong with millennials. It's just, they have a different mindset. So they live in different timeframe than what you're probably used to. And I just really liked it.

yeah. But yeah, you have some stuff you've read from him, maybe.

Daniel: [00:26:37] Oh, for sure. So there are two, two books he's written start with why and leaders eat last. And so for start with why I think that does a really great job of summing up what we've talked about so far as what is important and ways to engage and motivate others, and also ways for you to [00:27:00] be more engaged and motivated.

And so some of the lessons that he talks about. First one is if you want to inspire others, always communicate your why first is that goes back to trying to build engagement and trying to get someone excited about something. It's not enough to say, alright, this quarter we are going to sell. A million dollars and you're done, I gotta make 100 sales calls each week and nobody's going to be engaged, or we're excited about that because at the end of the day, it's like, why are we doing that?

So if we can start with the why, if we can explain. Why it is that we want to get something done, why it is as a company, that this should be important and why you as an employee should care. That's really that first building block into getting somebody excited. And that leads right into his second lesson, which is the best businesses are built by excited employees.

And if we. substitute the word excited for engaged. That is right in line of what we've been talking about this entire time as somebody who is engaged in the work, doesn't find commitment to be difficult because they're excited about it. That's the third lesson is you don't need any sleazy sales tactics.

You don't need to do any sort of like bait and switch or anything like that. people. Both within and outside of an organization can be really excited about it. If your why is in the right thing

Andrew: [00:28:32] I got. Gotcha. So if I can see it, What you're saying is the Y leads to that engagement, which leads to that commitment to the workplace a year.

You're thinking that if we want to be committed in the workplace, we don't need to be. Committed for commitment's sake. You're saying we need to have a reason to be committed. So we need to find out what the why is. So we can care about what we're doing, which leads us to being engaged was makes commitment that much.

Less challenging for us because we're doing something we want to do, or we at least have a reason to do what we're doing

Daniel: [00:29:05] 100%. And that goes back to what we talked about in our very first episode of commitment, with personal commitment is knowing when to say yes to something and no to something.

And that is something that we. As millennials should do our due diligence ahead of time and do some research. And if we're going to say yes to a job, if we're going to say yes to a commitment, making sure it's something that we agree with, the why. And we agree with that commitment ahead of time, because once we say yes, we should follow through on it.

I think you and I definitely agree that is valuable. And just because all of a sudden you get into something and find out, Oh, this isn't exactly what happened. What I had in mind. If, if you didn't do the due diligence to really figure that out, that's a little bit on you now. It's a different, somebody pulls the boy out from under you, but there is an onus of responsibility.

To say [00:30:00] yes to the things that you have researched and looked into that why, and then to honor that I like it. And in those situations where you, maybe you didn't do a little bit of research that's, there can be some of that lesson of saying, I'm still going to honor this commitment. I'm still going to build up my reputation.

There's still a benefit to you. And then maybe the next time around, you're like, okay, before I say yes to this, let me actually get my facts straight.

Andrew: [00:30:30] I don't know if this has much to assignments, Nick, but I've got a little story, maybe a humble brag. I'm not really sure what to tell you it is, I've tried to do this commitment thing. And the why for me was easy because it was, Hey, I'm helping people have access to technology that they otherwise wouldn't have access to.

They're able to talk to their friends and family that are far away, that, all that kind of stuff, all the things the internet does for people. That said, I, I followed through, I did a really good job at doing exactly what I said I was going to do. So I was really committed to following through on projects and stuff like that.

So whenever I left my last job, I actually heard. That there were people that we worked with that when they found out I was leaving, they're like, can I hire? Because they had seen what I had done for them. there's tangible results here. Even if you are in a position you don't like, or, whatever it is, you can still have that why that leads to that engagement, which leads to you following through and doing a really good job in your career.

And it can help you grow. Your career outside of that position you're in, because you're almost never only interacting with one person. A lot of people are going to see what you're doing, even if you don't

Daniel: [00:31:42] feel like it. For sure. Yeah. That's, it's a valuable commodity is what it really comes down to.

Andrew: [00:31:48] No, absolutely. I

Daniel: [00:31:49] like that since Simon, because our tutor, I've got to also his second book, second Ted talk leaders eat last. Okay. As soon, if maybe you followed a little bit more of those concepts with some of your Mo with Jake, your millennial employee, Jake might still be around. So the idea behind that plays a lot into the questions of.

Is the culture high trust, is there time with managers? And so the basic idea, there is taking a look at, he tells a story about the army and how those guys will do anything for their commanding officers, but it's because their commanding officers would do anything for them.

And he tells a story about, this commander who essentially literally let his entire team. Eat and he forego the meal. cause it just wasn't enough. And they found a way to make sure that he was also fed and he didn't say pull rank and say, you know what? Like I gotta have my brain sharp because I got to run this operation.

I need to have food first. And he takes that opposite approach. And. There's this quote from the, from [00:33:00] the Ted talk where he's talking about and the military and the army, we give metals to those that sacrifice themselves so that others may gain. But in the business world, we do the opposite. We give bonuses to those who sacrifice others.

So that they make this, we've got an it's

Andrew: [00:33:19] totally assignments. The net quote. If I ever heard one, he turns those. He turns things around. He's Hey, look, this is how it should be done. And look, you're obviously doing the opposite, which is bad.

Daniel: [00:33:31] Yeah. and that just really stuck with me and has stuck with me my entire time of managing people is just trying to take this mindset of what can I do.

To really show that I value and care for the people that I'm leading. What can I do to show that I am committed to them? And they're good, regardless of the cost to me into the organization. And it can be a little bit challenging because sometimes you as a leader have more vision on what is ultimately for their good.

And they may say, yeah, like I would love to just. Maybe work one day when he can never come into the office. And I think that would be from my good, and that's the challenge where you've got to change that perspective and help somebody see that in reality, yeah, that's maybe what you want from your kind of just flashed, but that's not truly what is good.

but there are definitely these moments where. Maybe somebody could essentially move into a new position and you might lose them from your team and it's going to hurt you as an individual, it'd be good for them as a leader, you gotta sacrifice and say, you know what, I'm committed to your good.

I'm going to put you up for that promotion, or I'm going to put you up for that transfer, even though it's going to put me in a bind personally, that is something my commitment to you is more important. So I think if more leaders take that perspective, we'd see a lot more of that commitment and engagement to organizations.

Andrew: [00:35:07] Okay. So if you're an employee though, let's say we're fresh out of school, just start on your job. How do you make that? How do you make that come across to your manager? Do you just hope you get the best manager?

Daniel: [00:35:22] Yeah, that is a tough question. You could always go the passive aggressive subliminal route, maybe get a signed copy of one of Simon's books and just slide it on the desk and say, Hey, I just read this. I think he really enjoyed it.

Andrew: [00:35:37] honestly, I know you said that a little tongue in cheek. I don't think that's a terrible idea.

Maybe not the sign, but if you read the book or you liked the book and you're having trouble with that, direct leadership. That maybe they're not meeting your expectations. Honestly, I think that's great. Hey, I just read this really good business book because I'm a motivated person and I think you would like it too.

And I would love to talk to you about [00:36:00] it when you're setting up a meeting with some too, you get to talk about it, frankly, and be like, yeah, I think this is something you could do as a manager for me, that I would really like to do. See, and here's what I could do. And you have a really honest conversation like that after.

And I think that could really do some good for you.

Daniel: [00:36:15] Yeah. you're actually probably right. I was saying that somewhat sarcastically, but

Andrew: [00:36:18] yeah, I think that's great. Honestly, I think that is, that should be actually, in the top five options in that situation.

Daniel: [00:36:25] Okay. So to give a less sarcastic answer from me, I believe in this concept of managing up.

And so any position and whether you are fresh in the organization or you're a manager, but obviously you're still probably reporting to somebody, even if you're a CEO, you're probably, you're reporting to the board of directors. Everybody has a boss, right? The concept of managing up is really beneficial.

And some of the best ways to do that is to just lay out. Yeah. Expectations are to really be ready with somebody and say, Hey. I would respond a lot better to feedback if it came up in this way and I want to grow and yeah, I want to be more engaged here. And so I just want to let you know that this would help me.

And so that's the way of managing op is just essentially giving your boss the keys to making you a better employee.

Andrew: [00:37:22] Okay. I dig that's, that is a good way to handle that kind of situation. I think next time I have a boss, I'm going to give that a shot.

Daniel: [00:37:31] I'll be your boss.

Andrew: [00:37:32] Oh, thanks man. I appreciate, I probably need cheat.

I'm spending too much time going to the gym and not doing things that I actually should be, which is nice, but it's also not, my biceps still look about the same, but Oh, Thanks for listening guys. This has been a day, but tomorrow podcast with Daniel and Andrew. We've talked about commitment. Now this was a three-part series you could say on our episodes, when we're tying it all together, what's really important to hear is recognize that commitment starts with yourself.

it's a discipline. It's really difficult to be committed to anything else. If you can't be committed to yourself first. Working towards yourself commitment and then building on that with social commitments and then wrapping it up with your professional commitments will build a stronger foundation for you as a person it'll help you grow.

And it helps you. Understand what matters and where your values lie, because when you start making these kinds of commitments and it's not this

Daniel: [00:38:34] cheap

Andrew: [00:38:35] thing that you're offering people, when you say yes, when you tell your boss, yes. And whenever you make a goal for yourself, that's where your foundational success has come from and how you will be able to grow across all the other topics, we talk about coming forward.

Okay, so thanks again for listening. And we look forward to connecting with you soon. [00:39:00]